The Red Baron - movie

[raf]

http://www.redbaron-themovie.com/

Maybe this one will be better than The Flyboys. Looks promising but you never know with this things.

[Lukem]

So...it's not based on the true story then?

Thanks for the heads-up Raf - nice photo of Ernst Udet's DR1 (or a model of):)

[cobra6]

Yup that looks promising :)
Hope they dont screw it up with romance too much.

Cobra 6

[Hitori Kyo]

Director Nikolai Müllerschön has said:

"A meticulous reconstruction of the Baron's life and the historical setting was not uppermost in mind, that didn't interest me so much. It is more important to see what is relevant for people today. I saw no sense in making the film like a well-researched documentary. However, during my preparation on the film and looking into the story of his life, the man seems to be more like how I thought he should be."

(and they got Ernst udets Dr.1 wrong)
I wouldnt hold any great hope for this one =/

- Hitori Kyo

[kiwi123]

ouch..... so he worries about his mortgage, his road tax and safe sex. Instead of flying a fokker Dr.I it needs to be more flashy and american, fokker sounds a bit too dirty, so we changed it to Lockheed Martin F-1 obviously without the logo or ever mentioning the full name. The LMF-1. Three wings could never work in real life, so we changed that to four. Also, only one quadplane with a red color would seem too boring, so they are all red. We saw that in flyboys already so it must be true.

[roshent]

(and they got Ernst udets Dr.1 wrong)
- Hitori Kyo

Hi Hitori, you mean the camouflage on the lower wings ? There is some debat to that... I think it depends what period of WW1 they are portraying...
(Or do you mean something else ??)

[Hitori Kyo]

im not sure what you mean in your statment "Roshent"?

Jasta 4 received the Dr.I on the 20th april 1918. When Jasta 6 and 11 received its DV.II aircraft in may, Jasta 4 received some ex Jasta 6 and 11 Dr.I's
The Fokker Dr.I they seem to be trying to portray in that screenshot from the red baron movie set (fig 1) is (586/17) which was previously flown by Ltn Hans Kirschstein of Jasta 6. When Ltn Ernst Udet recieved it he added his "LO" insignia and also changed the underside wing crosses (according to the may 13 directive to do so).

fig.1 - This is the image from the red baron movie site depicting the striped aircraft.

fig.2 - This image is of Ltn Hans Kirschstein infront of his Dr.I (586/17). The image clearly shows stripes only on the upper wing, with the stripes heading diagonal to the left the length of the wing. It also shows the stripes on the tail being straight.

fig.3 - This image is of (586/17) flown by Lnt Ernst Udet, once again stripes to the left on the upper wing no stripes visable on lower wings.

fig.4/5 - Lnt Ernst Udet standing next to (586/17) clearly showing no stripes on the lower wings

fig.6 - Apparently Ltn Ernst Udets last Dr.I with Jasta 4 (593/17) showing no striped wings at all.

I cant find any photos of any other Dr.I's in a similar scheme or flown by Ltn Ernst Udet.

- Hitori Kyo

[roshent]

I thought you meant the stripes as it turns out you did.
I'm not a WW1 expert by all means, just read somewhere that there are folks who claim to have different pictures, wether they support the 'movie' claims for the direction of the stripes I'm not sure. Wish I remembered where I read that....

[Lukem]

I've only got a couple of extras, but they support what Hitori has said; diagonal stripes on both sides of the top wing and on all 6 support struts as well as the Jasta 6 straight stripes on the tailplane.

And apparently the light coloured stripes are not necessarily white - a book I've got suggests that it could have been pale blue!

[LegalAssassin]

Why does people still do this? I mean, if you're going to lie, make up the whole story, don't claim it's based on reality.
Historic movies should be as realistic and true to reality as they can, not some director's "idea" of what "might have happened".

I liked Braveheart, which isn't very true to reality at all, but that's more of a legend, and noone can say much about what happened. I still wish they'd made it more like what is known, like the Battle for Stirling Bridge rather than a field etc.
When we have facts though, a movie "based on a true story" should be made according to the facts. All it takes is some research, and if you're going to make a multimillion-dollar movie, it's worth doing properly.

[Hitori Kyo]

Totally agree with you, really its getting out of hand ..does it really take alot to pick up a few books and do the research =/

- Hitori Kyo

[Lukem]

I concur - what's the budget of the film, compared with how much Hitori's research cost?

I quite enjoyed Braveheart as well - and not just the ending!:D

[roshent]

I agree as well with you guys, but on the other hand, I can't see from one, obvious to some, discrepancy in a camouflage that the whole movie stinks.
I want to see it first before I conclude wether or not it's a good movie.
What I saw from the videoblog on their website that at least they made some proper props and recreated an airfield which seemed to me to give some atmosphere. Okay there were allied and german planes parked next to each other, but I think they weren't filming them at the time ;-)

When the thing comes out and turns out to be as Wiek thinks, then I'll shoot it down like the rest of you, but it's all in the eye of the beholder really...

just as a sidenote...
Some of us voted for 'A bridge to far' as a good war movie in an other thread, I was at the place were they filmed the bridge scenes (Deventer, not Arnhem) during the filming and saw the tanks that they used to cross the bridge. Much media attention was giving to the fact that they placed thousands of rivets on the Deventer bridge because the one in Arnhem had them at the time. (AFAK the rivets are still there) but the tanks they used for that scene were made of plywood, usually just two sides a front and a sideview. I know cause I played with them as a kid during the filming.

[Lukem]

Very fair point Roshent, but there is another immediate discrepency - the actor they have chosen looks nothing like Manfred von Richtofen (among other things the actor has got far too much hair, based on the photos I've seen). A film called 'Red Baron' - they could have got that bit right surely?

But you are right, we haven't seen the film yet.

[Hitori Kyo]

yes i can agree with that Rosent, but i think we can all agree its not off to a great start like we all had been hoping. guess we shall just have to wait and see untill it comes out =)

- Hitori Kyo

[roshent]

Maybe the guy's hair is so fluffy because he had a hairpiece on the whole time... just guessing.. :lol:

On another note, dunno if your interested Hitori, I was having a scanning session and came about an old article in the Scale Models magazine about Richthofen. I've included them here. If your (or anybody else) interested just send me a PM and I'll send you the original scans at a larger resolution...

3339

3337

3338

[Hitori Kyo]

Thanks for the scans Roshent, is appeciated.

- Hitori Kyo

[roshent]

ummph, I managed to forget the last page..

3353

[Hitori Kyo]

thought there might be more as it stopped in mid sentance =D

- Hitori Kyo

[Hitori Kyo]

http://www.pixomondo.com/web/showreel/index.htm A reel from the CG company doing Red baron. They have gone way over board in my opinion =/ the a/c move like fighterjets ..flyboys was to fast but thats just crazy (i hope its just the vid thats been speed up)

- Hitori Kyo

[giant551]

Well i got to say i think the trailer looks great, very well done and the effects look excellent.

The thing is 99.9% of people seeing this movie won't have a clue what the Baron looks like or that the stripes on the bottom of the plane are incorrect.

We could debate all day about the how movie's do not portray historical events accurately but its entertainment at the end of the day.

last time i looked Kenneth More had 2 legs and looked f**K all like Douglas Bader and i'm sorry to tell you this but i'm pretty sure all the spits in The Battle of Britain were not Mk 1's :eek: :eek: :p

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[kiwi123]

This looks much better than Flyboys ! Actually looking forward to this one now. Don't really see your problem with the motion of the planes Hitori Kyo. They were very light and manouvrable.

[raf]

If you look more closely, planes are not flying that fast. Their rotations about all axis are pretty fast and jerky but that could be right.

Anyway I still think that properly made German war movie should be better than some Hollywood blockbuster wannabe. I loved "Das boot". Don't know how accurate it is but it is a great movie.

[Hitori Kyo]

I think you guys have quite scewed view on the performance of ww1 aircraft this clip may help http://video.mail.ru/list/pealot/2/6.html


The Red Baron trailer is down atm, it can be seen here http://video.mail.ru/list/pealot/2/8.html

- Hitori Kyo

[roshent]

Is that first one actual WW1 footage Hitori ? I cant read the russian text on that site.
I agree with you that the planes in that trailer look a bit more glamerous in their flying quality then I would expect. But I've also read that actual footage of that period looks different when you view it with modern camera speeds and stuff I don't know a thing about... Something about the period camera's had different framerates or something...

Did someone see an actual shot of the movie with that Baron actor and his fluffy hair ? I'm still hoping that's corrected otherwise I'll find the thing pretty Hollywood like...

[kevjon]

Can't wait to see this one. It looks great in the trailer.
Makes me feel like modeling up a WWI plane now !

[Hitori Kyo]

The clip i posted above is form the 1933 movie "pour le merite" so not ww1 but close, tiger moths being a big give away.. I dont think modern cameras speeds would really make difference (spesh with majority of red baron being CG) This vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHJmae52J8c is from 1966"The Blue Max" showing a similar speed (because both use real aircraft)

i know what you mean Kevjon =)

- Hitori Kyo

[Zorin]

I'd say the secret is the camera work, not the recording speed. The CG allows for much more dramatic shots, unusual perspectives that aid the feel of speed and editing with a lot more cuts has made movies faster in general.

Especially The Blue Max shows how slow a dogfight can seam with poor camera work. Back projection and static cameras.. how should there be the impression of speed?

[LennO]

You better like the fx, cause i modelled a lot of those planes ;D

[kevjon]

You better like the fx, cause i modelled a lot of those planes

Dream job, they look awesome, must be great to see your work up on the big screen.

[Hitori Kyo]

agreed!

- Hitori kyo

[deltacharlie]

to give another criticism :) it looks like the prop ac have painted lozenge camo rather than dyed fabric.

That said, I'm just really happy that the movie doesn't star Ashton Kutcher and Lindsay Lohan. :lol: :lol: :lol:

~DC

[kiwi123]

I think a lot of the criticism is too harsh. This looks like the best thing in our field of interested since decades. Of course, having said that, the story and acting could be horrible, but the visuals are ace.

[roshent]

Hmm, changed your mind then Kiwi ??

[Hitori Kyo]

I stand by my crits, But Kiwi is exactly right ..This is a great thing for our field, the visuals are spectacular and will be respected for that even if the movie is terrible.

- Hitori Kyo

[kiwi123]

Wasn't my first post obviously humourous as an attack on the usual hollywood approach to movie making ? I think Pearl Harbour has stunning cinematography, just a horrible backstory. They should have taken that battle of britain bit and expand it to fill the first hour and a half :lol:

But in all seriousness, this trailer blew me away.

[LennO]

Just FYI, the reel is back online:

http://www.pixomondo.com/web/showreel/index.htm

[kiwi123]

And it still ROCKS !

[Skyraider3D]

It's very cool indeed. I agree with Hitori Kyo on the flying behaviour, but the biplane example video shows 1940s trainers, not WW1 fighters, which behave a bit differently. As a frequent visitor to the Old Warden air shows I can tell that WW1 fighters are (or "can be") manouevrable, but can definitely not be thrown about like that.

[einRoter]

I visit many forums now to look for the feedback of the FXstuff,...
...and LENNO!!!???
I read everywhere u boast urself with:
"..I modelled a lot of planes ..etc." :confused:

I dont wanna blame u, so I just say, dont exaggerate specially when the rest has hard enough to hold their horses! Thanx!

[kiwi123]

Guys guys, calm down... instead of arguments you could show us nice pictures of the models !

[LennO]

I visit many forums now to look for the feedback of the FXstuff,...
...and LENNO!!!???
I read everywhere u boast urself with:
"..I modelled a lot of planes ..etc." :confused:

I dont wanna blame u, so I just say, dont exaggerate specially when the rest has hard enough to hold their horses! Thanx!

wtf?

So you just regvistered here to…flame me?

Never exegerated nor did i "boast" ANYWHERE. Actually there's not any forum besides this and another german board where i even MENTIONED the baron, nor ever would as there's no need to. Now I do not even know WHO YOU are, but IF you've got any problems with me, you might want to contact me in private before flaming me. Quite a lot people here and on said other board are long time friends of mine and usualy know what I've worked on.

So just calm down…honestly i don't evern understand the INTENT of your post. I take it you were involved in the production as well, in which case i would have PREFFERED you to contact me in private if there's anything that you feel has been communicated in a wrong way. Anything else feels pretty childish from a professional standpoint, especially if you worked on the baron.

[Martocticvs]

einRoter: no flaming on these boards, please. If you have something to say to LennO, it seems to be that it would be better said in private.

[paddy]

Well I think Pixomondo have done a bloody good job. I'd question how some of the planes could withstand some of the G's they're pulling but over all I think it's astounding. The colouring reminds me of some of those first world war colour photos where the colours are surprisingly vivid and strong.

And as for playing Richtofen, they should of got Michael Schumacher .. after reading about The Baron I think Schumacher is very close in both looks and temperament. Cold as a fish.

[Lukem]

And they both enjoyed their job. But cold? No, not from what I've read.

Do we know when this is being released?

[einRoter]

wtf?

So you just regvistered here to…flame me?

Never exegerated nor did i "boast" ANYWHERE. Actually there's not any forum besides this and another german board where i even MENTIONED the baron, nor ever would as there's no need to. Now I do not even know WHO YOU are, but IF you've got any problems with me, you might want to contact me in private before flaming me. Quite a lot people here and on said other board are long time friends of mine and usualy know what I've worked on.

So just calm down…honestly i don't evern understand the INTENT of your post. I take it you were involved in the production as well, in which case i would have PREFFERED you to contact me in private if there's anything that you feel has been communicated in a wrong way. Anything else feels pretty childish from a professional standpoint, especially if you worked on the baron.

Hi, Lenno! yes you are right, i should contact u in private. was so easy where i red ur few sentences, to answer there :). well i didnt wanna flame u really..like i said... but i did while trying not to...A BIG SORRY here in puplic for that!
I try to explain my intention without using arguments which sound like flaming again.
Everybody, also the guys who where really much involved in the production, were told to hold off...like in every big production, u know the business.
Might be the same reason why u didnt tell exactly WHAT u did or how much.
Although most of us tell even less, u did not tell too much, sorry again, i red only ur "i modelled.." sentences.
But understand that they all would really like to talk about this great project.
I never saw so many artist in that amount of passion while working on that project.
Might be the same passion combined with a bad mood that made me feel to say words like in former threads.
..the thin line between professional and artist beeing xD.
If I couldnt express my intention clearly enough, I will go on in private :)

hope u can forgive me, thanx for ur job man!

[Evan]

Guys guys, calm down... instead of arguments you could show us nice pictures of the models !

Yeah, I second that (showing us some nice models that is). I understand it's probably all under NDA etc. but it would be nice to see some of the 3d models. Out of curiosity, which aircraft did you model LennO?

Evan

[einRoter]

many of them!

yes this NDA stuff sucks! :)

[LennO]

yes this NDA stuff sucks! :)

absolutely! ;)

[Skyraider3D]

I think you guys have quite scewed view on the performance of ww1 aircraft...
Here some real WW1 aircraft in action. Note how wobbly some of them are (not just the camera man's hand, hehehe) ;)
http://memorial.flight.free.fr/gallery1.html
http://memorial.flight.free.fr/gallery6.html

For those living in the UK, for real WW1 birds visit the Shuttleworth Collection at Old Warden. They have a superb collection. And for those in France, visit the place where these videos are made! :)

[raf]

Cool clips. Looks like it's hard to keep them straight and level.

Would be nice to see them flying on the edge like they did in WWI, but nobody is that "brave" (stupid) anymore. Just some of those airfoils look dangerous to me, let alone all the other stuff.

[Skyraider3D]

They're definitely more than a handful, especially the more powerful rotary engine examples like the Dr.I and Camel. The grandfather of a colleague of mine was a ferry pilot in WW1 and flew Camels from the factory to the units. He crashed seventeen of them in the process! :eek:

[Pipo]

Ou no another ww1 movie with cg (flyboys 2)! pity