Mustangs Mustangs Mustangs

[Skyraider3D]

Hi folks,

This is a repost of my Mustang renders from the past two years. Click on the images for a bigger version... :cool:

September 2004: "Little Friends"
http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/skyraider/gallery/p-51d_359fg_1.jpg (http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/gallery/LittleFriends_1500.jpg)

September 2005: "Daddy's Girl"
http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/skyraider/gallery/p-51d_359fg_3.jpg (http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/gallery/DaddysGirl_1500.jpg)

December 2005: "Shepherds"
http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/skyraider/gallery/p-51d_359fg_4.jpg (http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/gallery/Shepherds_1024.jpg)

Some background info...

The original image was made for two P-51 veterans of the 359th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force, USAAF. "Little Friends" was the nickname given by bomber pilots to escort fighters. Both pilots of the aircraft displayed have been friends since WW2, giving the title a double meaning. There is a chronological anomaly in the image, as the rear-most machine was shot down in Sept. '44 (with another pilot flying it) while the front-most machine wears spring 1945 markings. This was intentional, as I wanted to portray the pilots flying together in their personal machines as they remember them; this never happened in reality. The prints were presented to them by a friend (the client) in the States. Here you can see two pictures of the veterans signing copies of the print for me:

http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/gallery/John_signing.jpg

http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/gallery/Rene_signing.jpg

The second image was made for the children of the late Ray Wetmore, topscorer of the 359th FG with over 22 kills. It shows Wetmore flying his personal mount "Daddy's Girl" (named after his first daughter) coming to the rescue of bombers of the 91st Bomb Group on a typical escort mission.

The last image dubbed "Shepherds" for obvious reasons was made for two other veteran pilots of the 359th FG. It shows them keeping an eye on B-17s returning from a mission at the end of the day. The bombers belong to the "Bloody 100th" Bomb Group. The piece was commissioned by the son of the pilot of the front-most aircraft and next week I will be meeting up with this veteran pilot,as he is coming to England for a holiday. I am looking forward to it!

Last but not least... ;) prints are available of all three images through: http://digitalaviationart.com/Olsthoorngallery.html

Thanks for looking :)

Ronnie


PS. I will post the profiles sometime later, after I have re-rendered them with the fixed national insignia (I made a little mistake with those... :rolleyes:).

[kevjon]

Its good to see these back up skyraider.

Very inspirational work !

[yobiko]

Beautiful images! :)

[Levias]

Ah well I saw your image "Daddys Girl" on CGTalk before. Anyhow I like it most ;)

[Art 111]

Thanks these profiles I've found that great forum!
5 * from me!

[Airborne]

Awesome pieces, really great for the veterans

[LegalAssassin]

They're all great, but I just can't stop looking at Shepherds. Top quality work!

[Skyraider3D]

Thanks very much guys :)
Although my personal and the general preference of the three goes to Daddy's Girl, I'm glad to see that other people appreciate the other images more. I guess it indicates some kind of consistency in quality, which I am trying to achieve.

With my Corsair model I will try to push the quality up a bar. The Corsair is a way better model than the aging Mustang.

[Alvaro]

I like the third one the most, for lighting, scene compo and colors balance. That spec highlight is very nice.

[digiartist]

beautiful stuff mate, little friends is still my favourite:)

[Meshfan]

Wow. That is great work. Great way to honor the veterans who fought in WWII. Great work. The backgrounds of those pictures are beautiful.

:eek: :eek:

[Aceman]

Simply put.. This is some of the best military artwork I've ever seen.

Aceman

[Skyraider3D]

Thanks a lot guys! :)


I can't wait to start rendering my 100h War ("Football War") image of a Honduras air force F4U-5 Corsair shooting down a Cavalier Mustang of El Salvador, while himself being shot at by a second Cavalier Mustang. Should give a nice twist the the usual Mustang/Corsair stuff... ;)

Besides that I have several more Mustang pieces in the works... one of which with ramjet engines! :cool:

[Buelliful]

Excellent work Ronnie! For me it's a close thing but I do like "Daddy's Girl"
the best. The sense of action and motion tip it for me over "Little Friends"

:D

[deltacharlie]

Fantastic work, amazing attention to detail, great lighting...I feel like I'm listing the categories for awards.

As I said before the crash, I think that must have been a totally amazing gift to the vets. You definitely do the Mustangs proud. :)

[kiwi123]

Daddy's girl is for me the clear favourite by miles. I love that one !

I think you can safely say you are a true digital aviation art master. Now finish that bloody corsair !

[Mirko]

Simply Beautiful. All of them.
My favourite is the " SHEPHERDS ". Very nice atmosphere!
:salute:

[neilh8888]

Amazing work Ronnie!

If you wouldn't mind giving up some of your tricks, I'd be curious what methods you used to complete the final images.

[Skyraider3D]

Thanks a lot guys! Wiek, you make me blush! And yes that Corsair is on the way to be finished! :)


Neil, to the raw render I basically add the following effects:
- contrast tweaks
- colour tweaks (hue, saturation, ...)
- bloom
- motion blur where applicable
- lightwrap
- filmgrain to match the background photo
- slight blurring/scrambling of the hard CG edges
- some vignetting
- any smoke, fire or tracers

Here's a good example of before-after:
Raw render (http://skyraider.allaboutwarfare.com/files/modelling/NA-57_900_raw_render.jpg)
Final render after post editing (http://skyraider.allaboutwarfare.com/files/modelling/NA-57_900_colour.jpg)

Maybe this particular image is a bit over-processed, but a lot of people don't take their image beyond the raw render. As may be obvious, a raw render has a lot of Photoshop potential, which is often left unexploited. It can really make a difference between a "3D plane smacked on a photo" and a pleasing piece of aviation art. In general I spend more time in Photoshop than in MAX, setting up the render. It's simply faster and you can basically tweak anything in 2D.

[neilh8888]

Great! Thanks!

[scrimski]

And never ever render in only one pass. Split up at least into shadow, lighting, specularity, reflection and diffuse.

[Skyraider3D]

You've never ever showed us a finished render yet ;)

Occasionally I do split up renders... such as my first Ju EF 100 render.

[bazze]

I can't add more that haven't already been said! :D

[Skyraider3D]

Today I met up with the pilot of the front-most aircraft of the Shepherds artwork. He signed a number of prints for me, which I will soon release as my first limited edition signed print :)

It was a very enjoyable day, mostly spent in the RAF Museum in London, together with Neil Carroll of www.digitalaviationart.com

Here is a picture of the signing:

http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/gallery/Warner_signing.jpg

[kevjon]

Cool. Looks like his signing it with a pencil. How come he didn't use a pen ?

[Skyraider3D]

Pencil doesn't fade, doesn't look "printed on" and can't be easily forged :)
http://www.ehangar.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=559

[kiwi123]

Very nice Ronnie, congrats !

[kiwi123]

And never ever render in only one pass. Split up at least into shadow, lighting, specularity, reflection and diffuse.

That might work for you Scrimski, I always like to get as much done in my render and basically take a "near finished" image into photoshop.

[digiartist]

good stuff Ronnie! In regards to doing multiple passes of a render, I usually end up with an occlusion pass and seperate element renders. Personally speaking Photoshop is where I pull everything together and gives me a lot of flexibility to work into the render.

[Skyraider3D]

I usually end up with an occlusion passI always put an E-Light clay model pass on top, which is more or less the same thing I guess but with added highlights :)

[scrimski]

You should try mental ray for this AO thing. It's faster than skylight or even e-light, I use this in animations a lot.

And kiwi, please stop depressing me, I'm still kinda busy searching my dropped-to-the-floor jaw.

[mrys]

I love this effect of metal on yours Mustangs surfaces.

And love whole images;) of course! Wonderful works.
I warn you, that I plan to ask you for many things about your technology. And when I write "many things" I mean "REALY MANY THINGS".

Of course if it is not mystery...

I plane to make model of british Mustang Mk III piloted by Eugeniusz Horbaczewski from 315 Sqn. in near time.

[Skyraider3D]

I love this effect of metal on yours Mustangs surfaces.

And love whole images;) of course! Wonderful works.
I warn you, that I plan to ask you for many things about your technology. And when I write "many things" I mean "REALY MANY THINGS".

Of course if it is not mystery...

I plane to make model of british Mustang Mk III piloted by Eugeniusz Horbaczewski from 315 Sqn. in near time.

Soon I should have factory drawings for the XP-51 through to P-51D :)
I'm also planning on doing the Mk.III and once I finally finally get round to model the Fw 190 A series I'll do a render of the big dogfight between Polish Mk.IIIs and JG 26 in 1944.
A Polish Mk.III chasing down a V1 at low altitude could be a cool scene too!
Did Polish units ever receive the Mk.IV model (P-51D)?


PS. I already have a reprint of the Mk.III Pilot's Notes manual at home, with some good cockpit photos.

[mrys]

Did Polish units ever receive the Mk.IV model (P-51D)?

Yes, for example 4.04.1945 Polish 303 Sqn received Mustang IV and Mustang IVA (KH663 -L, KH669 -P, KH770 -Y, KH825 -C, KM112 -D, KM186 -A, KM191 -Z, KM220 -G, KM237 -R, KM297 -K). Camuflage was boring: natural metal and british roundles;).

PS.
Hmmm... factory drawings.... Hmmm... I'am a little hungry;)

[bazze]

Looks like somebody was inpired by your work Ronnie :)

http://ic3.deviantart.com/fs15/i/2007/038/8/8/Tutor_et_Ultor_by_LightWavin.jpg
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/48285125/

[kiwi123]

RIPOFF !!!!

[mrys]

Looks like somebody was inpired by your work Ronnie :)



"Inspired" it is not precise word...

[Evan]

Not sure how I missed this thread but.... congrats on all the fine work you have been doing on the P-51. Like Kiwi, "Daddy's Girl" is still my fav. of these.

[MagnumHB]

I was curious about just how much of a ripoff that is so I threw the two into Photoshop, and it's even worse than you think. It's so bad that even the center of the He-111 formations are about the same place as the B-17s. Of course, the P-51 and Spitfire's flight attitudes are also just about identical. Well, it sure doesn't get more blatant than that.

[kiwi123]

That is really really shocking. How can someone call himself an artist when doing that ?

[cobra6]

Sorry but I'm not with you guys on this one. If you recreate for instance a painting its also fine, how would this be different. It should be an "honor" someone finds you work so good that they use it as a base/refference for their own work. Nothing wrong with that.

As the saying goes: "Better a good ripoff than a bad idea". Almost so in every branch of design.

Cobra 6

[kiwi123]

If you recreate for instance a painting its also fine, how would this be different.

See, it is NOT fine. This is not using Ronnie's work as inspiration. This is using it as tracing paper. Maybe in design it is custom to copy good features from one thing and combine it with others, but it is still not accepted to take a philips design, copy it and stick a samsung label on it. In the same way, people doing overpaints of photographs are frowned upon. This is even worse.
I realise it is pretty hard to come up with new concepts and angles and there is apparently no such thing as an original design, BUT that doesn't mean you should just copy someone elses work and stick your own name on it.
Turds like this guy get jobs with their portfolio. Believe me, I've had to work with such people in the past, they get a boatload of money every month because they have ripped off other people's work and pretend it was theirs. And they will say: well, see I just thought I can do what that guy did. But they can't, they're just living in a fantasy. This guy ripped off Ronnie's work and did not even attempt to improve on it, it looks cheap now.

Think about it Cobra, it is NOT cool what this guy did. :confused:

[cobra6]

if you put it that way indeed it is not =/

Posted a reply on it and reported it to the DA mods, that will set things straight.

Cobra 6

[MagnumHB]

The plot thickens: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/36076210/

[kiwi123]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH it's HORRIBLE !

[cobra6]

lol WTF :O Skyraiders sure's got some friends hahah

That thing even got a Daily Deviation, now thats horrible, its the "header" of DA...

Cobra 6

[kiwi123]

To think I thought that was a respectful art site.

[Danoku]

Looking at first blatant plagirism, lets not mince words here, then plagirism that is well.....I know kids are on here at times, so i will check myself. I am reminded of the immortal words of a young captain when told his mission was to be SAM bait in viet nam, YGBSM (You Gota Be Sh****g Me) The only silver lining to this is that when compared to the original article, these works show as the pale, souless knockoff's they are. In the end I believe all the work that really shines and grabs us, has its power and roots in the love of the subject. (yeah that and absolutely SICK skills) Gotta love those imperial roundels from star wars on the wings on the blobby smurfire or whatever the heck that things is. And just to make it clear, the MINUTE you cross that line to where you are selling that sort of ripoff in the first case, abomination in the second (not the model Bazze ; what was done with it) its open season in my opinion. (hey where the puking smiley at)

[Sphynx]

While I do not share all of the views expressed here about angles, views etc. there are limits. If he'd built a whole host of meshes etc. (i.e. showing skill) and just rendered them in the same positions, I'd actually have called it an homage. BUT...

This guy on DA is an over-painter - period. There is little skill involved. I thought that I'd take a look, just for a laugh, and found that several of his fantasy paintings were also familar - they are overpaints of work by the Spanish fantasy artist Luis Royo.

BTW. has the focus of this one been taken down? I couldn't find the spits in his gallery anymore.

[arai]

haha oh my god, I dont know whats my favorive part, the b17 nose art, the shark teeth, no no wait, its gotta be the star wars logo. and its available for sale! Kiwi, get that up on aviation-arthouse pronto




you know, maybe I shouldnt laugh, he has eight pages of people who love his work and want to concieve his baby... *sigh*

[MagnumHB]

To think I thought that was a respectful art site.
That was your first mistake. Most (not all) stuff on DA is just random preteen scribbles.

Yeah, that second one is just plain bad. I didn't know the Polish would be allied with the Empire. Guess you learn something new every day. I think my favorite part is how he says they are "dive bombing." That would be quite a challenge considering there are no bombs in the picture.

[Buelliful]

Wow! Words fail me...that is one of *the* most blatant rip-offs I've ever seen.:eek:

Still, nice to see Cobra's comments have shut him right up!!! NICE ONE COBRA!:lol:

Jeez! Man the "overlay" link is a real eye opener....:p

Keep up the good fight folks!

and "Go on yersel Ronnie! Good man, good work!" :salute:

[cobra6]

To think I thought that was a respectful art site.

Please do not judge it so fast. There are a lot of great artists on DA, and also some very promising comming up. I too am part of the community and you dont see me ripping off.
There are always some rotten pieces in every community, but the only way to dealing with them is reporting them to the staff, like I did with the guy.

@Buelliful: Only thing I can do is report it to the staff, see what happens.

Cobra 6

[bazze]

haha oh my god, I dont know whats my favorive part, the b17 nose art, the shark teeth, no no wait, its gotta be the star wars logo. and its available for sale! Kiwi, get that up on aviation-arthouse pronto




you know, maybe I shouldnt laugh, he has eight pages of people who love his work and want to concieve his baby... *sigh*

Well the Empire marks is actually my idea :D

[cobra6]

Ripoff! :P

/here we go again :)

Cobra 6

[kiwi123]

Cobra, my comment about a respectful site was about choosing something like that for their front page. Not about individual member ripping others off.

[cobra6]

Cobra, my comment about a respectful site was about choosing something like that for their front page. Not about individual member ripping others off.

....its about my main page of displaying work....

Cobra 6

[mrys]

See, it is NOT fine. This is not using Ronnie's work as inspiration. This is using it as tracing paper. [...]
I realise it is pretty hard to come up with new concepts and angles and there is apparently no such thing as an original design, BUT that doesn't mean you should just copy someone elses work and stick your own name on it. [...] it is NOT cool what this guy did. :confused:

Few years ago I wrote a book about P-36 Hawk for AJ-Press. When I started with writing I had cooperator, who had to write part about combat using and camouflages. And of course he knew my text. But a moment before book was to be published he sold MY text as his work to other publisher. So in one moment on market was two books with almost identical text, but signed by two different authors. Guess how I felt then? Even worse: my publisher ask me straight: "did you sold text to me and other publisher simultaneously? Or did you accept this?". "For Heaven's sake, No!" I answered. He believed me, but I had some troubles with other publisher. I was innocent, but there was unspoken question in the air "who knows?".

So in my opinion it is shame for guy who use Ronnie's concept as his.

My CG adventure with airplanes, my draftsman experiences, my writing books it is not only hobby. It is my work. I accept, that sombody can use it as data source or inspiration for his work. But not in this way!

I know Ronnie as very kind and helpful man. Thanks to him I can illustrate my books with such amazing images. And I learned much analising his works. So I'am not happy if somebody use his art in such way as this guy did.:frown:

[digiartist]

It stinks....Ronnie does all the hard work, coming up with a dramatic comp, lighting and finally rendering it to an extremely high quality and then these two come in and blatantly copy it.
What makes it all the more fustrating is while a large part of the CG community will reognise them as cheap copies of Ronnie's work there are still plenty who will fawn over these guys like they're genuises.
It's bad enough when someone uses your work without asking but when they use it as a template for their own work and pass it off as their own thats the lowest!:frown:

[MrKo]

What can I say. Beautiful stuff!

[Skyraider3D]

Hi guys. Just back from a short holiday. Anything happen meanwhile? :lol:


O dear o dear... that cracks me up! In a rather immature way it's flattering, but I especially agree with Wiek that these kind of folks can grab jobs from people who deserve them, and that's a real shame... :(

[Skyraider3D]

It gets worse still, he has TWO versions of it. This one is even more of a ripoff than the Heinkels one:

http://www.gargoylestudio.co.uk/images/Artwork/tutor_et_ultor.jpg

from: http://www.gargoylestudio.co.uk/gallery.html

[kiwi123]

That tosser calls himself a CG lecturer as well. See what I mean ? These people get jobs on the merit of their portfolio. And this starts teaching others..... unbelievable.

[Skyraider3D]

Very true Wiek. I'm pondering if I should contact the uni where he's teaching, but that could be a bit too harsh... :)


By the way, my CG Portfolio (you know, from that "other" site) is currently featured on the frontpage of http://portfolio.cgsociety.org

Still not sure if I should part with $29 for another year of my CGPortfolio though... :p

[Skyraider3D]

Little update...

"Shepherds" Limited Edition is now signed by both veteran pilots:
http://www.digitalaviationart.com/shepherds_le.html

http://www.digitalaviationart.com/art/Olsthoorngallery/limited_editions/shepherds_le_360x360.jpg

[cobra6]

ps. Check Gareth Hector's Gallery. The first 3 pieces display the title Galland's Doras when clicked on details :)

Cobra 6

[Skyraider3D]

Thanks. Will fix that tonight.

[cobra6]

welcome ;)

Cobra 6

[Skyraider3D]

LOL! I just found this on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7hWP9ecGS4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_E7UPoileY&feature=related
:lol:

[Nils]

Hehe now that seemed familiar :)

[Bigglesworth]

I've been drooling over these beautiful pieces for some time now. I especially like "Shepherds" and "Daddy's Girl" the best. Beautiful, Skyraider. Inspiring and beautiful.

[chrisken]

I read this thread for the first time yesterday so I went to page 1 and read the whole thing. You do not have to be a brain surgeon to see that the inspiration or tracing as wiek called it is from Skyraiders image .What I thought was a bit sad was the tone of the language in some of the comments. I am sure that if the guy had of asked skyraider he would have been only too happy to help with composition. There are thousands of WW2 photos out there people use for inspiration and I am sure if I composed a scene using the attached image I would get howled down for tracing wieks image in the gallery. (This in no way means to detract from wieks image but is used to illustrate that if I had never seen his image and used this photo I would have been assaulted with heaps of comments about its origin while thinking I had done my own work.We are all supposed to be adults and despite the fact that the image in question is "INSPIRED" by skyraiders excellent image we should comment in that way. Probably opened a can of worms!!:D

[Skyraider3D]

The thing is Chris, that there is a difference between being inspired by an image and copying it. In this case it's obvious that the exact positions of the aircraft were copied from "Daddy's Girl". This is simply inexcusable. The facts that he's an art teacher and that this was a commercial product, only make matters worse. So some of the harsh wording is definitely justified, I think.

Literally copying a WW2 photo is not a great idea either, but being inspired by one is fine, especially if the original is black&white and the artwork is full colour. Aviation painters who merely copy photos aren't terribly respected either.

There's another implication with copying artwork; There will be people who see the other guy's work before they see mine and they might think of me as the fraud. A WW2 photographer would never have this problem... ;)

[chrisken]

Skyraider I agree with all your comments and you have everyright to be upset and dissapointed. Comments can be caged to reflect that without being reduced to a lower level. In my opinion the quality of your work alone separates your image from the other and one would have to be pretty niave to think you copied his.:D

[Skyraider3D]

Thanks Chris :)

[kiwi123]

Chris, nice find that photo ! First comment people would make would be: oi, you forgot to turn the propellors in different positions ! :)

Funny enough I do not remember the photograph, but it probably was the inspiration at the time. Nowadays I definitely come up with my own compositions, hahaha. Anyway, still a cool picture !

Actually, a lot of the well known painters use photographs and paint them directly or with slight adjustments. Its a shame, but understandable.

When people start directly ripping off other artwork really all respect is lost. Unfortunately you'll always have ripoff "artists" who do not create images for the art, but for some other reason.

I do get your point though in showing that photograph, if somebody else used the same as inspiration I probably would immediately think someone ripped off my work, even though my own was inspired by that same image. But mostly because it is one of the very few images I did based on a photograph and it is very long ago. I'd assume it was my idea to begin with.

I'd be VERY suprised if Ronnie's artwork was based directly on a photograph. So the point is moot in this case.

Cheers,

Wiek

I read this thread for the first time yesterday so I went to page 1 and read the whole thing. You do not have to be a brain surgeon to see that the inspiration or tracing as wiek called it is from Skyraiders image .What I thought was a bit sad was the tone of the language in some of the comments. I am sure that if the guy had of asked skyraider he would have been only too happy to help with composition. There are thousands of WW2 photos out there people use for inspiration and I am sure if I composed a scene using the attached image I would get howled down for tracing wieks image in the gallery. (This in no way means to detract from wieks image but is used to illustrate that if I had never seen his image and used this photo I would have been assaulted with heaps of comments about its origin while thinking I had done my own work.We are all supposed to be adults and despite the fact that the image in question is "INSPIRED" by skyraiders excellent image we should comment in that way. Probably opened a can of worms!!:D

[chrisken]

Hi wiek ,It only came to mind because I had recently read Aircraft of the Luftwaffe Aces and I thought ,I have seen that before and was impressed by how you acheived the same mood of an old photo in a your render .As it shows ,inspiration can come from anywhere.I know it is an old work but is still impressive. I do not presume to know the basis for Ronnies work, just that the world is full of inspiration if we look.

[Skyraider3D]

Most, if not all my renders come from moving the 3D model around in 3D space and finding an interesting angle. I actually find this one of the most enjoyable aspects of 3D aviation art, as it triggers lots of ideas.

My posibilities for the composition of "Daddy's Girl" were limited, due to the need to show off the nose art clearly. As it turns out, "Daddy's Girl" has a very similar angle to the main plane in "Little Friends" (which had similar limitations), but vertical! :)

I have an ever-growing "inspiration folder" now containing a couple hundred images, mostly WW2 photos and aviation artwork, but I've never actually used it to come up with a composition.

[rsvette12]

Incredible work Sir, super job all around, stunning. :D

Regards, Rich

[Skyraider3D]

Thanks Rich! :)