MiG-21PF

[Galgot]

Priviet Tavaritchi :)
So started something new last april, wanted to share some wip renders I like.
My first post on this great forum since the Great 2006 Katastrophe crash. Hope u like it.
http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/58.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/61.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/64.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/66.jpg

[krazycolin]

nice... always loved this plane ever since i saw one doing a fly by at an airshow... before they cancelled supersonics at them.. wow... cool....

[Martocticvs]

Good to see one of these being done - can't say I've always liked them but they've grown on me recently and now they are one of my favourites.

[kiwi123]

good stuff !

[Martocticvs]

Can I just ask, underneath МиГ you have a word that looks distinctly like Rабота... as there's no R in Russian that's either a typo or a К looking odd..... just wondered as I have an odd interest in that sort of thing hehe

[Galgot]

Thanks, glad u like it.
Mmmh... yes no R in Russian , I thought too... But with that font if I type a upper case R, it does ... a R :-p Don't know if thats correct. I thought too a upper case R in cyrillic should be P. The text means "work in progress image", just typed that in a web translator. In latin letters, something like "Rabota ï prodiijenii izobrajenie". Don't know Russian at all, but like cyrillic letters a lot :-)
http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/34.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/65.jpg

[Martocticvs]

Работа в Изображении продвижения

That seems to be the correct version. 'Rabota veh izobrazheniy prodvizheniya'.

[Galgot]

Ahahhh Thanks Martoctictvs ! Corrected now :)
http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/43.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/50.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/56.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/55.jpg

[kevjon]

Thats a really impressive modelling job. Good clean mesh and loads of detail. You must be planning to animate the aircraft as you have cut out just about every movable part.

Looking forward to seeing further progress.

[Karras]

Very good modelling, :eek:
But the russians planes of this age " cold war " ....they are uglys & roughs, and maybe no so goods, like occident belived.
I prefer the actuals planes, more beatifuls and effectives .:D
Sorry for my poor english:rolleyes:

[franken_johan]

Love your subject and love your WIP images!

[Galgot]

thanks for the interest :-)
I don't know if I'll do any animations... but I like to have all movable parts ready, so if I have an idea of render in a particular situation its easy to move things... I'm doing the ejection seat now, not yet finished. I should stop detailing , or its gonna be a texturing nightmare.
Well Karras, its really a matter of taste... myself its the opposite, apart from the Mirage 2000 (not because i'm french...) I find modern jets nice, effective, but a bit boring, like modern cars. I prefer Starfighters, Mirage III/Vs, MiGs , like I prefer a Jaguar type E or a Bugatti... And that rough look is what i like in the russian ones. Don't know about their effectiveness...
So Franken_johan if you love it, have some :
http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/69.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/70.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/71.jpg

[Skyraider3D]

Looks great so far, mate! Glad to see you've ventured into real aircraft! ;)

[Galgot]

Ha ha Hiya Sky ! Carefull, I could transform this into a commie DrakVador Spaceship or something ;-P

[Martocticvs]

Great progress on this! I am liking the level of detail you are going in to on the seat there.

[dali]

any chance of doiing http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/jrvipvo_mig-21pf_707.jpg

[Galgot]

Hi dali. Mmmhh... yes , why not. but note mine is a early PF model, yours is a PFM, I will have to change the fin, the flap system, the canopy and some other small things... Anyway I had plan to do some late PF, FL with board chord fin and PFS with the blown flaps later, so maybe a PFM too after that :-) I don't think Yugoslav Air Force had some PF.

[dali]

http://www.mig-21.de/bilder/mig-21de_belgrad05_3.jpg

we had F-13, which was called L-12 (L= lovac= fighter)

[Galgot]

Hello, some small updates :
Stopped the ejection seat and cockpit modeling here

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/98.jpg

then finished the detailing the inside of the air-brakes

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/96.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/97.jpg

next I will focus on the landing gear...

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/99.jpg

hey! its nearly 16h00 ! Its nearly the week end :-) Have a good one !

[Zimster]

WOW! Amazing attention to detail! Its looking awesome! You must have great reference. :D

[kevjon]

Really, really nice job. Most impressive work.

[Spinner]

I'd be proud of it.
Very nice. Love the attention to detail. Thats the point.

[franken_johan]

Speechless...

Looking forward to the complicated construction of the main landinggear.

[Galgot]

Hi all ! Many thanks for the kind words :) .
No renders this time . Been working on the main landing gear, trying to get all the parts to interact with each other correctly when getting up and down... So done the main shapes, not much detailling. It works alright i think. Here a small Anim :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/Anim4.mov

Still many things to add, pipes, some few other moving pieces...
Zimster -About the reference, I think i grabbed about all the MiG 21 Pictures of Airliner.net, plus many others . Plus some set of good russian drawings...And some few books, but these don't help me alot...
Hey your F-15 looks much more detailled , look at that blowpipe you posted...Smoothed and all . I will leave many things in lowpoly on this MiG.

[denders]

Wow! That's neat!

[Skyraider3D]

Impressive!

[Galgot]

Hello !
So i will stop here for the main landing-gear. A small anim and some renders. Next, will detail a bit the inside of the main gear well (correct word ? in french is "puit de train"...)

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/Anim5.mov

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/100.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/102.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/103.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/105.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/108.jpg

[Spinner]

Very nice!
I'm a little confused by your anim, though. Can't think when you'd be lifting the air-brake and gear together. The only time I can think of is an aborted landing.
It might work better coming down? Popping the boards then getting dirty on final?
The abort and go could be very cool with if you could add the pilot hitting full mil then the afterburner. Sound n light show through the anim parts would really be special.

[Galgot]

Thanks Spinner.
Well , i also have done an anim with the gears going down while the canopy opens ... even more unrealistic :-) these small anims are just done to show how the pieces are moving, moreover they are not rendered, just done in the Maya modelling window...

[kiwi123]

very nice work !

[cobra6]

lol seems a guy not far from here has two 21's in his yard, and 3 dissasembled ones haha

Cobra 6

[krazycolin]

cool stuff.... really cool.. i saw this plane do a burn and scoot eons ago... WOWSA!!!!

[roshent]

I'm not into jets, but this one looks great in the modelling department, and I love the way you present your WIP's..

[franken_johan]

Very well done!
I remember how I strugled with the same landing gear a few years ago. In the end I gave up the whole idea of animating it. It was way to complex for me to handle!

[kiwi123]

Congratulations on getting a header !

[krazycolin]

nice gear anim... you using IK for that?

[digiartist]

beautiful detail, well done on the header!

[denders]

Congratulations on the header!!!

[Galgot]

:eek: Wow ! The header ! Many thanks Sirs. I'm honoured !
Cobra6 - I think i saw some picts of ex-polish MiG21 disasembled in Netherland, somewhere on the web... some MF, must be these... My garden would be too small.
Franken_johan - I remember visiting your site some time ago, even before i strated using maya, it was quite an inspiration for me :-)
Krazycolin - Thanks. I'm not using IK. There is a joint for the main gear leg pivot, then i used a Utility Node to animate the main oleo compas whenever i move the wheel up or down, and then used herarchy, Point and Aim Constraints to connect the others small compas with that main one... There is also a set of joints for the oleo pipe to bend correctly. Here is the main gear hierarchy image, on the left a detail, on the right the complete left gear ...

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/HierarchieTrain.jpg

Kiwi - Denders - digiartist - roshent - Thanks Sirs !

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/wire.jpg

[krazycolin]

tu parles francais? ben LA!!! nice job... too bad i didn't understand a single word you said.... (i use max and not maya!!!)...

[bzhyoyo]

Well deserved header ! :)

[Galgot]

Krazycolin - Je parle français... I am a "Maudit français" :-)
bzhyoyo - Merci !

[krazycolin]

you in queeeebec? or france?

[Galgot]

I'm in France, would like to visit Quebec one day...

[Galgot]

Ok, finished the main gear well... next step, the front gear

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/109.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/111.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/112.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/114.jpg

[cobra6]

nice work! really nicely detailed. Like that in a model.

Cobra 6

[krazycolin]

yah.. me too.. sadly i just HATE modeling so MUCH.... :P

[kevjon]

Probably the most detailed 3D aircraft I've seen ! Well deserved header by the way.
This will look very realistic once rendered with the right textures and lighting setup.

[krazycolin]

uh... you are forgetting about mike miller's biplane... that was the most detailed 3d plane i've ever seen. totally amazing.. though, i am not knocking this one.. it's pretty darned good too. ...

[Lukem]

Ye Gods! The header is definitely well deserved - superb work sir!

Ah Kevjon, have you forgotten a certain cut-away spitfire?:D

[franken_johan]

Just put a shortcut to this thread in my favorites! Awesome detail!!!

[giant551]

Holy freeking shamoly Batman, that leval of details obscene:D :D :D Loving it:D :D http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y248/giant551/shocked.jpg

[Big Red 11]

You can never trust translators - that phrase doesn't seem right to me at all. It translates roughly to Work in Imaging Moving. It's an odd phrase, never heard it in russian, so I wouldn't trust me on that.

As for the model - it looks fantastic.

[Skyraider3D]

Great going.
If you need anything translated in Russian, drop me an e-mail with the exact text. My wife speaks fluent Russian :)

[Galgot]

Hi all !
giant551 - Lol, I have a monkey too , same species but older , sitting on my desk. he seems very dubitative about my work :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/outang.jpg

Now friends, I would really like to have that Russian text correct :-) Thanks for the translation proposition Skyraider. was going to ask around me in the office "Hey anybody speaks Russian ??" when i saw your post... Just how would be "Image of work in progress", or "Work in progress image" in Russian ? Or is the text i use correct enough ? Thanks in advance to Madame Olsthoorn :-)
I've not worked much on it this week... Too hot, even in the evening...

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/122.jpg

[Pablo_nemesis]

Wow, that exaust looks great , awesome job :)

[Martocticvs]

Great going.
If you need anything translated in Russian, drop me an e-mail with the exact text. My wife speaks fluent Russian :)

That's interesting to know! I'd love to learn Russian myself (no don't worry I'm not asking you to get your wife to teach me hehe)

This is looking really great. The only thing I would say is the edges of the gear covers could perhaps do with a slight bevel (if they already have them ignore me as its probably just down to the lighting that they don't show) - as they just seem to blend completely with the wing when the gear's raised right now.

[Big Red 11]

Work in Progress would be "работа в процессе развития"

I'm a native-born russian speaker too ;)

[Skyraider3D]

There you go :)

Great looking exhaust flame. I'd remove the reflection (or refraction?) of the exhaust into the flame, though, as it make sense.

[MagnumHB]

Agreed. Right now it looks like some glass blower found a stronger furnace than normal.

[Galgot]

OK corrected now :-) Thanks.
Well for the flame i'm still experimenting... maybe you 'll like that one better, just testing... :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/124.jpg

Martocticvs - i agree , was thinking that too after the render of the closed doors was done, its looks welded with the wing... not nice. Moreover the other mooving parts have a distinct small gap when closed. i will do a small gap between the doors and the other surfaces , it will be enough to look ok maybe. will be done next update...

[Skyraider3D]

It looks very cool, but not terribly accurate.
http://eventphotographer.smugmug.com/photos/50622195-L.jpg
If anything, change purple to blue.

[Lukem]

Looking great!

But would the left hand elevator be lit up like that?

[krazycolin]

good catch lukem.... and i think ronnie's right... bluer is better... and perhaps a bit more spread... less like an inverted tornado and more like a bunsen burner...

[Lucas]

Great model, I found a nice painting scheme photo, might interest you:D
http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive/2005/images/news_0507_04_15.jpg
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/polishfitter.jpg

[Supah]

Great model, I found a nice painting scheme photo, might interest you:D
http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive/2005/images/news_0507_04_15.jpg
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/polishfitter.jpg

You did notice that the planes on the pictures are Su-22Msomething Fitters and the model is of a MiG-21PFM Fishbed?

[Kazan_HB]

Nice photos Su22 :)

[Lucas]

Ooops, sory guys, always mistake those two planes:D

[Galgot]

So she's now standing on all her legs...

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/127.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/129.jpg

Lukem - the elevator is lit cause the light i placed in the blowpipe does not produce shadows (did not checked "shadows" in atribute editor)... so it lights every surface it hits... Tried some other settings for that flame, here another render

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/134.jpg

I like it, but still it would be better without that thin orange stripe. i will have to learn seriously maya's particules to do something more accurate... right now its just a nurbs shape with some bright lights. Will stop playing with fire for now, texturing is coming...

Lucas - I like a lot the Su 7/17/20/22 family too :-) thank for the picts. would be a nice model.

[Lukem]

I have to say, I've never been a fan of the Mig 21, but your model is fantastic. Makes the plane interesting.

As far as the jet - shock diamonds! Is the blast something that would be done better in post production? It looks better, but I think it is still illuminating more things than it should. Just my opinion, you understand...

[Galgot]

"I have to say, I've never been a fan of the Mig 21, but your model is fantastic. Makes the plane interesting.

As far as the jet - shock diamonds! Is the blast something that would be done better in post production? It looks better, but I think it is still illuminating more things than it should. Just my opinion, you understand..."

Thanks and, sure, its my opinion too :-)

[Galgot]

Ok... So done the drop tank, and two other type of fins and the ventral fin that goes with it.
Here the thin fin with brake chute fairing, for late PF/PFS version:

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/159.jpg

Here the board fin also for late PF and FL version :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/151.jpg

Now boring unwarping of the UVs is nearly finished, so just started the texture... Just the bump for the canopy:

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/169.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/170.jpg

Cheers

[Supah]

wow man this is really look good! I have always liked these early interceptor versions of the Fishbed :) Beautifull! Will we be seeing it in action against a NATO foe in a render?

[Skyraider3D]

Looking awesome, mate :cool:

[krazycolin]

very cool!!! really like it....

[Lukem]

Fantastic sir! Looking forward to seeing the paint job.

[brodiedog]

Heard an interesting story about these; it seems during the Vietnam war when Russian pilots were flying these in North Vietnam the Russians asked the Chinese if they could transport spare parts by road across the western part of China, the Chinese said yes, and lo and behold over the months one of each spare part went missing and yes you've guessed it after about 12 months the Chinesse were flying an exact replica of the Mig 21, I actually did work for the Chinese aircraft.

[Martocticvs]

Great update!

[Spinner]

Very nice. Almost a shame to cover with texture.

[Art 111]

Extra model!
Nice to see "warsaw Pact" aircraft! I like this Mig a lot!
Spasiba :)

[franken_johan]

Very nice. Almost a shame to cover with texture.

Don't listen to Spinner and 'finish' this aircraft! Very curious for your textures...

[Galgot]

Thanks all ! happy you like it :-)
Supah - well considering all the users of Mig21, i will have to do a quite a bunch of renders :lol: So some Warsaw pact air forces birds of course... Some Polish, Czech. Old DDR NVA also, their MiG 21PF where some of the cleanest of the Warsaw Pact from what i see on pictures :-)
brodiedog - Interesting story ! The Chinese 21 is the J-7 right ? You worked on the J-7 ? I read somewhere that China managed to copy the MiG 21MF by getting some from Egypt, they produced the J-7 III from it... So from your story, they have copied the earlier PF even before at the time of Vietnam war.

[brodiedog]

Yep, at the time I was on contract to Marconi and they sold radar to the Chinese, and I was involved with the drawings that came back when the engineer that I worked with went out to China for a month. And an even more interesting thing, one of these drawings showed a pilot sitting in the plane dressed in flying boots, leather jacket and leather flying helmet with goggles a la World War 2, I mentioned this to the engineer and he said that was exactly how they dressed when flying them?????????????

[brodiedog]

I don't know which variant I was working on, my knowledge of Chinese script is very limited in fact non-existant, but the work that I did was circa 1980/81, the best bit was we had to go out and buy a 1/48 scale plastic model of the Russian Mig 21 to help us understand things better.

[Galgot]

That's interesting ! I wondered for some time why the Chinese didn't used the big nose of the MF to put a bigger radar on their J-7... apparently they weren't very happy with their MF copies, see here :
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j7c.asp
found this very interesting link...
But they could have done some thing like a J-7 with a PF nose...Wonder why they kept that small nose.
Maybe the one you worked on was the F-7M Airguard export version, they talk about some Marconi equipment on that page :
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j7.asp
(Sorry if you know these pages already...)
One nice plane also is the early J-8,
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j87lg.jpg
Wish i could find a good scale plan of that one :p
Thanks for these stories :-)

[MrKo]

This Galgots Mig is absolutely splendid! Good work! I started while ago also very interesting bird which is related to mig-21. The quality and detail is not even near Galgots one but when ever I have time I´ll continue this work. Its difficult to find good reference for this rare beauty. Ye-152/162

[Skyraider3D]

How about somebody modelling the An-2 on floats in the background? :D

[Spinner]

Yeah, I spotted that interesting variant too.
Close to my heart is the AN-2, as I spent some time helping tune its FM for a sim in which I wager not one in a million players ever flew it. lol

[Galgot]

MrKo - Hey E-152 is nice ! The original is at Monino Museum, maybe a walkaround have been made already... Now have to find it on the web :-)

Skyraider - At least no landing gear anims to do that one. But too much details to do :eek:

Still working on the bump textures :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/181.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/184.jpg

[krazycolin]

coming along nicely.... very....

[franken_johan]

Still working on the bump textures

These bumpmaps must have an interesting resolution!

[kevjon]

Very scale like detail on the bump maps. Looks really good.

[brodiedog]

Like the bumpmaps, still looking great, keep it coming

[Martocticvs]

Bump maps are looking great - they must be fairly large though?

[Galgot]

They are 4096x4096 pixels, one for front fuselage, one for rear fuselage, each taking a half rudder and many smaller pieces, then one for each wings and elevators also taking smaller uvs meshes... don't know how my Powerbook will handle that . So far no probs... anyway better to start with big maps to do all détails, then lower the res if required. I had about six big maps on a previous model, was slow, but it worked.
http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/185.jpg

[cobra6]

looking good! I was hoping you would model all the bolts ;)

Cobra 6

[Galgot]

hehe... its the problem with modeling... where to stop... But it seems you are prepared to go far on the rivets subject :-) I will stop a this level;-)

[Martocticvs]

I too prefer the modelled route, though it's harder to get them looking like they've had a coat of paint or two over them that way - and to be honest yours is looking great the way it is.

[kiwi123]

I'd go one further and say this looks more realistic for a jet to do rivets that way.

[Galgot]

Bump !
Still bumping... Rear fuselage and fin almost done:

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/201.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/204.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/206.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/207.jpg

Cheers

[kiwi123]

Bloody amazing !!!!

[kevjon]

Detailing to the max...I admire your patience with such a tedious task as adding all the rivets.

[Skyraider3D]

Stunning detail!
You need to start adding more polygons now! :p
(seriously though, the bottom corner of the rudder cutout looks chunky, but the rest looks mighty fine)

[MrKo]

Unbelievable...I think I´ve never seen anything like this before. Good stuff Galgot!

[bzhyoyo]

Great job. Bravo !

[krazycolin]

heading towards a header are we? great stuff... detail on your bumps is perfect...

[kiwi123]

If I am not mistaken, this was one of the first ones on the header once the site was up again....

[Skyraider3D]

It was indeed. Next header will be a final render I think ;)

[cobra6]

Galgot seriously awesome bumpwork :)

If I remember correctly the upper fuselage had a huge amount of srews around the panels, didnt take photos of it unfortunately, didnt have a camera with me =/

Cobra 6

[Galgot]

Many thanks for these nice comments Sirs :-) Very encouraging.
Skyraider - I agree, will have to add some few vertices here and there... I got a bit too enthusiastic with these maps, maybe cobra6's rivet madness is contagious , it reached me on the photoshop side ;) Mmmmh will see.
Cobra6 - Yes , it seems the top fuselage panels (and many others) are maintained in place by big screws, of different size and shapes, depends of the panel... otherwise rivets , many. especially at the rear fuse and the fin. On the front part, i can't find picts showing clearly the rivet positions, they are not visible even on bare metal examples... Here a render for which i added heavily contrasted copies on the bump maps in the color chanel, so you can see better where all these screws/rivets are located, and the background is the actual bump map. the smallest rivets are white dots on a layer at 5% opacity.
http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/213.jpg

[Spinner]

I see what you mean.
Looking through my 4+ Mig-21 and the big screws are visable but the rivets are amazing. Theres often two rows with as much space covered by rivet as between them. Like a chess board two rows. Not very clear in the pictures, they couldeven be spot welds for all the pics show. :\

[Lukem]

Awesome detailing. Bit of a noob question here, but how did you get the different shade on some of the panels, or have you started a colour map?

[franken_johan]

Amazing detail on this great type!

[Galgot]

Hi ,
Lukem - The color map aren't started yet, I just plugged some bump maps copies, on which i increased the contrast , in the color chanel of the shader...

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/211.jpg

Just to see the rivets/screws patern better...

Spinner - Yes , the front fuse, i mean that main panel forming the main air intake tube could be assembled by weld spots maybe, so that's why i can't see any rivets... On other parts, they are clearly rivets on close up picts i have.

Franken_johan - thanks :-)

[krazycolin]

nice.. i can tell we are looking at header material.

[Lukem]

I agree KC - even if it is for the second time! Great work Galgot!

[Spinner]

Yes, there's definately no rivets on the inlet outer ring section. The cowling after that, with the probe, is difficult to know. Seems some around the probe and later models have some on a fitting at 3 oclock. It's amazing how all the pics from the front are all to far back for detail. It's like there's some rule you must stand here to photograph a Mig-21. lol

[Spinner]

Digging around looking for ref on guns when I came across a Us gun-nut company that bought some Mig-21 cockpits from the east german stock.
Crzy collectors, I guess.
Anyway, there's a bunch of pics Here. (http://www.sarcoinc.com/cockpit-gallery.htm)

[Galgot]

Hey ! Nice find ! Thanks, can be very usefull when i'll start the cockpit texturing.
Been very slow these days, under tons of work... anyway here a test render of the wing texture, to see the correct placement of the lines...
http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/217.jpg
Cheers

[Galgot]

Hi ! Time for a small update maybe.
Only had time to map the ejection seat during the last weeks :-/
With a mix of procedurals and map... It's incomplete and there's many inacuracies, found some better ref picts since i modeled it. But it's enough...

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/229.jpg

Cheers

[Skyraider3D]

Looks great to me, apart from the seatbelts perhaps.

[giant551]

seats looking great:D nice deatails

[Lukem]

Fantastic! I agree with Skyraider's comments regarding the seat belts though. The fuselage still looks amazing.

[Galgot]

Hello,
textured the main instrument panel this WE, no bump, just colour map.

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/237.jpg

And changed these crappy seatbelt shader :-)

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/231.jpg

a bit better...

[peter]

Galgot, this looks amazing!

[Skyraider3D]

fab! :cool:

[bzhyoyo]

even with the low-poly aspect, it looks stunning !

[krazycolin]

wow! almost nicer than mine.... (it's very nice though you do need to get the higher polygon rate going plus your textures are a little on the low end... )

did you you use a texture map for the gauges and buttons? it looks like one big map...

[Galgot]

Merci sirs :-) Started colouring the cockpit cause was bored of these exterior bump maps... not yet finished :-/
Krazycolin - well your is much more detailed than this one, no wonder it looks good :-) I was afraid to model/detail too much these interior parts with highpoly and all, would have had to unwarp UVs of highpoly cockpit, gears well...ect... enough work with the highpoly exterior parts already, and it's more fun to unwarp lowpoly objects, so... Anyway it will look Ok from a distance i think. will not do big close-ups shots of the cockpit. Yes, it's one texture for all interior part, here a part of it :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/T01.jpg

Cheers

[MrKo]

Simple but functional. Really nice work again...

[franken_johan]

Very very very nice!!!

[MrKo]

Good riveting pics

http://www.fsnordic.net/discussion/index.php/topic,58692.0.html

[Galgot]

:eek: Many thanks for that link MrKo ! excellent ref picts for me, especially the one of the GP-9 gun pack, was looking for a good one for long.

[MrKo]

No probs. I want to see your Mig ready!

[Galgot]

Ok, so i finished that cockpit. here some images, note the external color map is provisional.

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/255.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/253.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/259.jpg

Of course, ones the canopy closed and from distance not much can be seen...
But i know it's there...

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/260.jpg

And here a part of the map at full res, the right console :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/T02.jpg

Please sorry if you find I post too much images. But I'm happy with this cockpit been finished sooo...:lol:

[Skyraider3D]

Looks awesome, though it's a pity some of the round parts (HUD and radar, I assume) are very low-poly, and stand out as a consequence. Would be good if you could subdivide these once. Other than that it looks fab :)

[Mirko]

F A N T A S T I C job, Galgot!
:salute:

[krazycolin]

i think it looks good... in fact... i think it looks great... an amazing amount of work and of detail... i admit to some... concern about the amount of poly's in the pit when considered vis a vis the body, the gear and everything else... seems a bit... wanting... however, even with that... it's still some of the best aviation work i've ever seen in terms of modeling and texturing alone...

[kevjon]

Nice modelling and texture job.
Lot of work in there...well done !

[Spinner]

Very nice!
Must agree that the scope hood could be rounder.
Love the boot scratches on the floor and other weathering.

[Nils]

Great looking model, but I agree too with the scope and low poly roundings..
especially when the 99,99% rest is top class :)

I wonder why the russians choosed to open the canopy forward, must be alot crampier to install cylinders and opening devices in the nose part of the cockpit, plus it must be crampy to get in and out of there with flightsuit and all...

[kiwi123]

That looks AMAZING !

[Lukem]

Fantastic! But I do agree with the low-poly comments - for your final renders, how close to the cockpit are you going to be getting?

[giant551]

WOW !!! this is looking out of this world :D Keep it up:D

[Galgot]

I'm glad you guys are happy with it !
Well as Skyraider pointed out (Thanks), those (not enough) rounded radar "sock" and visor are visible like the nose on the face, so added some edges here and there, pulled some vertices (without touching the UVs, ouf...) , it's a bit better now :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/261.jpg

Nils - Thanks. Apparently it was made so that the seat takes the canopy with im during ejection , making a "shield" for the pilot. You can see the hooks that pulls the canopy off on the sides of tha seat...Here a interesting drawing of that SK-1 seat ejection sequence:
http://www.suchoj.com/andere/MiG-21/images/MiG-21F-13_SK_154.jpg
Anyway they abandoned that on later versions, I think because ejection could'nt work at 0 speed.
In the MiG-21F , the pilot all round vision was good with that single piece canopy. But then in the next versions, with added equipments in front and enlarged dorsal spine in the back it became really bad...

Lukem - Thanks !"for your final renders, how close to the cockpit are you going to be getting?" I don't know, will try to check the distance limit where it can't be seen that it's lowpoly... And that makes me think i will need a pilot for it :rolleyes:

Many thanks to all for the comments.

[franken_johan]

For me personally this is the best piece of 3D aircraft I have ever seen... Partially because of the great subject but mainly because of your level of detail. Very nice job mate!

[Galgot]

fraken_johan - Many thanks :lol: , but no, it can't be. Some things 10x better where posted here.
glad you like it :-)

[Skyraider3D]

Yep, that does the trick!
One more you may want to consider subdividing is the armour(?) panel above the pilot's head. It may show up if you plan to do some side-view renders (just thinking ahead here).

Awesome work mate.

[Lukem]

You could always have it parked on an airstrip - you wouldn't need a pilot then!

[giant551]

just a quick question ?? What PC rig you using to handle this level of detail ??

[Galgot]

It's not a PC :) A PowerBook G4 1.33 GHz, 17" (1440x900), 1 Go RAM. the graphic card is an ATI Mobility Radeon 9600, 64 Mo VRAM. The model is not that poly heavy, 230000, but will increase a bit... At the moment there are five 4096x4096 textures on it, runs OK. It take about a minute to open the file, time to load the textures, then after that it's OK. I've not done Highres renders so far though. Only some 2000 pix width...

[cobra6]

if I may ask. How big is your file? Because my BF109 file is about 120 MB and I wander how big your mig is... hehe

Cobra 6

[Galgot]

120 Mo ! wow... that Maya MiG file is 10 Mo. The textures are from 1 to 3.5 Mo each ones in jpg to load in the scene...

[dali]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

omg!

[cobra6]

120 Mo ! wow... that Maya MiG file is 10 Mo. The textures are from 1 to 3.5 Mo each ones in jpg to load in the scene...

I asked at my work and it seems to be a known glitch in MAX, there is a trick to schrink the filesize but I dont feel like doing it all the time ;)

Cobra 6

[Galgot]

Bumps are nearly all done. Finished the wings.
Here the wing with SPS blown flap for the PFS or PF-SPS version:

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/272.jpg

And the usual PF wing :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/275.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/269.jpg

And started the color maps, it will need a bit of work for a more metalic look :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/278.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/281.jpg

[krazycolin]

Galgot... all i can say is... that is some of the best damned uvw and text map work i have ever seen.... amazing... truly.... amazing... i'm certain that some will find fault, but dude.... listen not to those who would disparage... for they know not what they say or do...

truly amazing...

[Spinner]

Yeah, that'll do.

[Supah]

Wow! Looks really great galgot! Can't wait to see the final render on this one!

[cobra6]

ok:) just one word AWESOME :)

Cobra 6

[peter]

Looks really Superb Galgot!!! Well done:)

[bzhyoyo]

I really like these bolts, they look just the right size and the bump is set to just the perfect amount. Even with the wip diffuse map, it looks great. The final result will surely be awesome.

[Lukem]

Can I say awesome again? Truly inspiring work mate!

[franken_johan]

Can I say awesome again? Truly inspiring work mate! Part II

[Galgot]

:-)Thanks Sirs,
So nearly finished the fuselage textures , no markings for now :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/299.jpg

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/298.jpg

And since it was long time me not doing a render of the complete plane here is one , click on it , 1900 Pix :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/297tb.jpg (http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/297.jpg)

Cheers

[cobra6]

awsomeness:D

Love to have the finished piece as a wallpaper! ;)

Comeon guys just header this :P

Cobra 6

[Danoku]

wow, man this is just an awsome piece of work of real important machine, the textureing is wonderful. wow.

[Martocticvs]

That looks superb! Can't wait to see this in a final render!

[Skyraider3D]

Looks good, but the glass material seems to illuminate the cockpit magically? :)

[songbird]

W O W ! A W E S O M E ! !

[Alexbur]

But wait, this is the great photo, not 3d! Ok, this work is the true masterpiece! I was not the big admirer of aircrafts ...before this day. Probably, many of modellers are began to see more critical for their projects after occurrence of this guy here.
Sincerely

[MrKo]

This is absolutely insane quality! Wow.:eek:

[Galgot]

Thanks Sirs, glad you like it :)


Looks good, but the glass material seems to illuminate the cockpit magically? :)

Good question Skyraider ... This because it's the MiG-21 FAH (for "Feel At Home") version, very special version for cocooning addicted pilots... with few candles disposed in the cockpit (hence the light) and a samovar in place of the radar scope... And a too reflective glass material...

[cobra6]

Dont forget the incence ;P

Cobra 6

[peter]

Galgot this is amazing!!! Although I'm not a jet fan but this looks absolutely superb!

[Lukem]

I've run out of superlatives! (Has anyone counted how many times 'Awesome' has been used by the way?:D)

I'd like to see this on the header again - perhaps wait for the red star to appear again?

[krazycolin]

very nice work... (awesome!!!)

[flyguy72]

crazy man!

[Galgot]

The never ending wip...
Details are taking longer to do than i expected :\ anyway...
textured the main gear bays, the left and right are different, and these are very visible when the plane is on the ground with the doors open. Low poly , very simplified, like the cockpit.

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/327-330.jpg

And also did some killing devices. R-3S (K-13A) A/A missile and GP-9 23 mm gun pod. The funny thing about that last is that it blocks the rear air-brake... Must really have been a panic solution to gun rearm the MiG-21.

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/320.jpg

Cheers

[songbird]

I just want to ask one question:
Do you have a real mig21 in your home?:D

[bzhyoyo]

Who cares for polys ? Great, great work on the textures. I really like these detail shots, can't wait to see more of them. :)

[kevjon]

Its gettin there !

Excellent work on the textures which is really bringing this thing to life.

[franken_johan]

I just want to ask one question:
Do you have a real mig21 in your home?:D

Yeah that is his secret! He shows us a picture of it now and then ;)

It has been said many times before in this thread and I will say it one more time: AWESOME

[krazycolin]

i'm not going to say awesome...



i'm going to say fantastic... (starting a new trend)

your texture work is fantastic...

KC

[Lukem]

Excellent work sir! You say that the 'gear flaps are low-poly? It dosen't really look it!

Fantastic!:D

[Galgot]

I just want to ask one question:
Do you have a real mig21 in your home?:D

Not in my home... One Mig IS my home...

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/galgotsplace.jpg

My wife wanted us to move... but i said not until i get that model finished. The place is just too convenient for documentation... To do the landing gear , i just go in the bathroom and look around. And the cat likes to sleep in the blowpipe, warm place...

[cobra6]

(o0) incredible detail! :P hahaha

I like the lampion on the pitot tube ^_^

Cobra 6

[Skyraider3D]

What you don't see in the drawing is the open fire he has in the wheel wells to keep the place warm. Not unlike this one: http://www1.airliners.net/open.file/0738496/L/
:)


Great progress Galgot!

[songbird]

Not in my home... One Mig IS my home...

My wife wanted us to move... but i said not until i get that model finished. The place is just too convenient for documentation... To do the landing gear , i just go in the bathroom and look around. And the cat likes to sleep in the blowpipe, warm place...

:lol:
So cool!
Maybe you should choose A380 as your next project;)

[Martocticvs]

He'll be waiting years for his next home to be delivered if he does that hehe

[Galgot]

Ok i will stop this wip here. the models are finished with generic markings. tried to put the stencils, the ones for which i had good references,
not a lot of them... all in russian. Had to type these by switching to russian keyboard... I know it's stupid, nobody will read it...:lol: It has
nine 4096x4096 textures, five colormaps, and four bumpmaps, no specmap for now. will do it when i'll do some "historic" markings for some scenes.
Moreover, specmaps blows render time... So this will be when i'll get a new Mac, not far from now , in 2007.
Now some images. First, one of the last before it got finished, a bit dark, but like it a lot:

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/350.jpg

Then the finished ones, PF :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/356.jpg

The PFS :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/353.jpg

FL :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/358.jpg

The three together :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/360.jpg

And one last of the PF, click to get it at king size :

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/357p.jpg (http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/357g.jpg)

Voilà, hope you like it.
Cheers

[kiwi123]

Wow, especially the last one...beautiful !

[Nils]

Impressing!!!
It looks just real......
Congratulations with a lovely job done.

[giant551]

its been truly great to watch this WIP develop. The final product is superb:D very cool indeed. Deserves a header me thinks !!!

[Supah]

Looking good Galgot though the intake does look a bit angular, can that still be fixed?

[cobra6]

/me drops his jaw to the floor :O

Cobra 6

[kevjon]

It looks stunning ! I think you aluminium finish could be improved further, it looks a bit dull and grey at the moment but is almost there. Certainly one of the most detailed aircraft models I've ever seen.

[Mirko]

:eek: ....
Simply wonderful Work !!!

[Lukem]

Superb work! I definitely prefer the last render, but the first one is great as well. I especially like the custom 'watermark' markings - nice touch.

What's next after this masterpiece?

[franken_johan]

What's next after this masterpiece?

Ho stop it! First use this model in many many renders ;)

[Galgot]

Many thanks Sirs ! Happy you like it.

Kiwi123 - that plane is very photogenic , that angle i like too, looks powerfull.

Giant551 - Thanks !

Nils - thanks, cool you feel some realism to these images. I've tried the GiJoe script for Maya to do these renders, it's very easy to use and gives good results me think.

Supah - Thanks. It's because it's a steath version of the MiG-21... u know, F-117 like faceted skin...I knew i should'nt have chosen that front view for the big 1900 pix image... You spoted the not enough subdivised intake lip. Yes it can be fixed, will do it later.

Cobra6 - I remember u wanted a wallpaper...:)

Kevjon - Thanks ! I agree, it looks more like light grey paint for the moment. Will work on that shader to make it more metal like... Also that why i think it needs a good specmap, but then again ...later.

Mirko - Thanks !

Lukem - Thanks ! Cool you don't find these marks too ugly and imposing... I like the color of the first one, but the angle of the last is very good. Should redo that last with the same lighting as the first...Next i don't know.

Franken_johan - Haha, that's right... Many renders to do :)

[cobra6]

I took the last as wallpaper ;) thanks!

Cobra 6

[Galgot]

Can't stop doing renders...:rolleyes:
A last one:

http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/363.jpg

Cheers

[Spinner]

That last render just rocks.
Well done.

[Lukem]

I agree - it shows off your texturing really well.

[Supah]

A very nice choice of composition :) Will you be modelling a pilot to go into the cockpit?

[Skyraider3D]

that plane is very photogenicIt is! Looking awesome so far!
The MiG-21 was actually the first 3D plane I ever did. But yours looks ever so slightly better! :lol:

[songbird]

It is! Looking awesome so far!
The MiG-21 was actually the first 3D plane I ever did. But yours looks ever so slightly better! :lol:

It's also my first 3D plane:lol: . But this one is so perfect! I have downloaded some images of this thread. Maybe I could get some inspirations from them in the future:lol:
Thanks!

[dadeo911]

Wow!!!

Is there any chance you can do a 1440x900 posting of the last render for wallpaper is there? :D

[MrKo]

I cant descripe it. Its just so good! Pilots love the plane and many of them thinks its few of the real fighters, no fly-by-wire and over 2 mach. Its just hardcore! Thanks for charing this brilliant WIP!

[Galgot]

Thanks Sirs!
Supah - For more realistic inflight images i'll need one pilot, dunno how i'll do it... anyway, i'm collecting references on these very elegant (joke) soviet flight suits of the 60's.
dadeo911 - 1440x900 hu ? fellow PowerBook17' user ? here :
http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/3631440x900.jpg
Thanks again for these kind comments.

[dadeo911]

Galgot: "1440x900 hu ? fellow PowerBook17' user ?" Nope just an HP laptop with a big assed screen. :)

Thank you kindly sir for the new wallpaper.

[franken_johan]

It's also my first 3D plane:lol: . But this one is so perfect! I have downloaded some images of this thread. Maybe I could get some inspirations from them in the future:lol:
Thanks!

MiG-21 was also my first 3D model it was a long long long time ago. Can't find the 5,25 inch floppy it was on (no kidding!).

It's a nice easy model to start with. Unless you do it like Galgot of course :lol:

[Skyraider3D]

It's a nice easy model to start with. Unless you do it like Galgot of courseExactly!!!

[Martocticvs]

Absolutely great work on this! She looks superb!

[Galgot]

MiG-21 was also my first 3D model it was a long long long time ago. Can't find the 5,25 inch floppy it was on (no kidding!).

It's a nice easy model to start with. Unless you do it like Galgot of course :lol:

Guess what ? It was one of my first model too ! Ok not the very first, that one been a V-1 (not exactly a plane) done in adobe dimension... but one of my first in Strata , in 1999 :
http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/21Strata99.jpg
to be used at very small size in a fighting scene with that one :
http://galgot.free.fr/MiG/F4Strata99.jpg
For a magazine...
Funny to open these files now.

[neilh8888]

Wow! Truly an amazing piece of work. I know a couple of American pilots who flew this aircraft as part of the "Constant Peg" program in Nevada. I'll pass this thread along to them, I'm sure their jaws will hit the floor. Excellent work! A well deserved award.

[neilh8888]

One more story about this airplane before I forget. The American maintenance guys who worked on this plane were stunned when they took a delivery of "several" MiG-21's of the same type, from the same factory, and discovered there were differences in the size of parts of up to 12 inches! Gotta love that brute force manufacturing of the old Soviet empire.

[Skyraider3D]

One more story about this airplane before I forget. The American maintenance guys who worked on this plane were stunned when they took a delivery of "several" MiG-21's of the same type, from the same factory, and discovered there were differences in the size of parts of up to 12 inches! Gotta love that brute force manufacturing of the old Soviet empire.Interesting story. I am willing to believe the Soviets made parts that were less precise than their western counterparts (for ease of mass manufacturing by low-skilled labour), but 12 inches is getting a bit sily though ;)

[MrKo]

Thats what my cousin (air force mechanic) said about MIGs too. Those planes are not build very precisely. There could be 1-2cm caps between different panels and loads of other crude curves and bends. Urban tale says that the slobby parts made Migs aerodynamics somehow better. I dont know but I love the plane!

[Skyraider3D]

1-2cm1-2 cm gaps sounds more likely than 12 inches :)

[raf]

From what I heard from some mig-21 mechanics is that most of the structural parts were made without any holes so they were fitted together on the assembly line and holes were drilled right before riveting. That is why you can't use many parts from one mig-21 on another. For instance you can't do that with canopy. That also led to substantial variations in wing spar positions (12in does seem to much, but I'd believe 12cm). Also the sheet aluminium covers were probably custom made on the spot for each plane. So no gaps, it's just that the panels are different for each plane.
However that custom production could enable tighter fitting between parts which could explain better aerodynamics.
Anyways, I love this plane. It looks even better when you see it right in front of you. One beautifully streamlined engine with wings. It is funny how light it feels when you take out the engine. You can literally move it simply by turning a main wheel, without much resistance.

BTW, what happened to Finnish 21s. Are they still flyable

[MrKo]

raf: This sounds like a reasonable explanation.

Finnish Migs retired 1998. After the arrival of F/A-18s. Most of the them were scrapped, some are in museums and I heard a rumour that some where sold to US collectors. I was lucky to see Migs flying around my home town from 1980 to 1998. Its very agile and capable fighter when its flown on the "edge". Also the raw afterburner sound rules.

[Galgot]

interesting story. 12 inch ! that's 30cm ! Or could it be that they mesured the lenght of one plane with the nose cone extended and another one with the cone retracted ? :lol: Anyway that's good, it leaves a bit of "artistic licence" freedom when modeling a MiG-21 if one is a bit different from the other...in fact that's why i've chosen a MiG-21 to do, if ever someone comes and tell me the lenght or something on the meshe is wrong, i could answer "no no sir, this is MiG-21PF serial 4513382223 different than MiG-21PF serial 4532498444..." hahahaha... hum... sorry :cool:

[raf]

And if someone shows you the picture of 4513382223, you can always say "well yes but they changed it on second overhaul, and that photo was taken few days before." ;)

Sorry to hear about Finnish migs, this picture of one in the snow was one of my favorite pics of 21.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0672794/L/

Rare sight. Five in lineup. First one is UMD two seater, and others are BIS.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1158819/L/

Attractive display paint scheme.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0928550/L/

It is indeed nice to watch it fly. I was at an airshow when it flew by the crowd at 20-30m, 1000km/h, setting off car alarms at nearby parking lot. It's loud. :D

[Galgot]

And if someone shows you the picture of 4513382223, you can always say "well yes but they changed it on second overhaul, and that photo was taken few days before." ;) ...


Yes :D
Btw talking about differences , noticed different side winscreen windows on 21 bis, Rounded here :
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1166337/L/
(Nice he !)
and squared , more rare, but seen on all finnish bis here :
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0403029/L/

[MrKo]

Thats interesting, no idea why the screens are different. Btw, where can we see your completed Mig in future? Is it gonna be in some movie, multimedia, poster etc?

[Galgot]

Thats interesting, no idea why the screens are different. Btw, where can we see your completed Mig in future? Is it gonna be in some movie, multimedia, poster etc?

I will post in finished Gallary as soon as i have a scene done... Want to make it good so i take my time for that, moreover have difficulties working the evening now :\

[Skyraider3D]

interesting story. 12 inch ! that's 30cm ! Or could it be that they mesured the lenght of one plane with the nose cone extended and another one with the cone retracted ? :lol::lol: :lol: :lol:

[scottsch]

What a great model :D

My only suggestion is to add a spec map to increase realism, that's about it. Very nice work.

A spec map isn't hard to make - if anything you can just use a bump or a bump+colormap multiplied together, with increased contrast. I think in Maya you plug it into "Specular Roll Off" in the blinn/phong shader attribute editor.

[Galgot]

What a great model :D

My only suggestion is to add a spec map to increase realism, that's about it. Very nice work.

A spec map isn't hard to make - if anything you can just use a bump or a bump+colormap multiplied together, with increased contrast. I think in Maya you plug it into "Specular Roll Off" in the blinn/phong shader attribute editor.

Thanks scottsch. At the time i finished this wip, i didn't add spec maps cause it was a bit too much for my computer... since then i've got a new one, and added some just like u say :) there are some renders in the finished 3d section.

[dawestsides]

Almost 2 years and a half after,again another AWESOME!

[cobra6]

Thumbnail added to the first post so it shows up in the gallery instead of a blank square :)

Cobra 6

[Galgot]

Thanks dawestsides :)
And thanks Cobra6 :)

[Gadzooks]

Galgot incredible model and textures! I was also wondering where did you find the blueprints for plane?

[Galgot]

Galgot incredible model and textures! I was also wondering where did you find the blueprints for plane?

Thanks, Old stuff now :eek:
I think i used a MiG-21PF scale-plan from that famous airwar.ru Russian website… check the Military Intel (http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9) page here .

[Gadzooks]

Thanks Galgot!

[fuertes]

I've just finishing reading the pages of this post, and I'm speechless. impressive work on modelling and texturing.

[Gadzooks]

Galgot im really considering modeling this bird myself but would like to ask a few question on how you modeled some of the parts of the plane. As far as the spine of the plane that houses the canopy did you model it separate from the fuselage? ( see here for what i am talking about. It's your wire frame at the bottom the post) http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183&page=3 It looks as if you did. Just curious.

[Galgot]

Surprised this old model still attract some attention. Old old stuff now , You're digging MM archives :lol: Anyway, thanks.

Gadzooks - Yes, the spine is separate from the fuselage. In 3 parts. Here some wires :
http://galgot.free.fr/MM/spine.jpg

[Gadzooks]

You're the best Galgot!!! Thank you for taking the time to post those wire shots for me. :D Answers a lot of questions. Gadzooks

[repvez]

Can you show a couple of those wire mesh smoothing before and after , and which parts are separate from? It can you say a few words on how the various parts fit together so as not to deviate from each other nor from the shape nor the distance?

[Galgot]

Can you show a couple of those wire mesh smoothing before and after , and which parts are separate from?...

repvez - Check here : link (http://galgot.free.fr/wordpress/?p=460)

Now, this is an old thread, no need to unearth it again.
If someone wants some info about it, contact me via PM, will see what i can do. Thanks.

[repvez]

thank you and very good your's homepage.