Curtiss-Wright CW-21B

[roshent]

Hi crew,

Well since I want to reinstall my OS I figured I'll better start this so I have some proof I was working on it if anything goes horrible wrong like it usually does when I reinstall an OS...

I have planned a series of Curtiss planes, and this one is the first I started. Although more of a Rhino man, this one is done in Cinema4D since I want to learn polygonmodelling. I'm not sure yet if all three of them will be done in Cinema though.

It is believed there is not a surviving example of this plane, which is a real pitty cause even though it has strange lines I kinda like the lines it has, especially the tail. Hence that's where I started modelling the detail.

The rudder isn't finished and it has some lumbs and bumps around the edge of it. But most detail is there, apart from the rivets that is. Although I dont' know yet how far I'm gonna take the detail level.

Big thanks go to the forum member (who's name I stupidly forgot) who went to the Evergreen Aviation Museum and took some pics of it's sisterplane the CW22 Falcon, more or less a two seat CW21.
These pics are instrumental since there is very little data and pictures of the CW21B.

C&C most welcome and needed probably!

[Skyraider3D]

In my opinion this is one of the coolest subjects ever on MilMesh! :)

Still early days... Mesh has a number of flaws. Best don't do any detailing until your shape is properly sorted.

[roshent]

Jeez fast reply, I still can't post images the way I want them to... drats one day I'll learn.

Thanks for the comments, I had it better, but adding the detailing took some roundness out of it. (The part I dont like about polygonmodelling).

[kevjon]

Never heard of this plane before. Could only find 1 photo on google. Be interesting to see it take shape.

[Skyraider3D]

Kevin, it was the other Dutch front-line fighter in the Netherlands East Indies. The first obviously being the Buffalo :)
It was nicknamed the Interceptor. Not terribly succesful against the Japanese, but very elegant looking.

Some info... (found in images.google.com using "cw-21b", by the way)
http://www.warbirdforum.com/cw21.htm
http://www.ipms.nl/signl/cw-21/cw21b.html
http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel/207
http://www.aviationart.nl/airplane_curtiss_wright.htm

And last but not least, my "own collection":
http://skyraider.allaboutwarfare.com/files/dutch/interceptor_01.jpg
http://skyraider.allaboutwarfare.com/files/dutch/interceptor_02.jpg
http://skyraider.allaboutwarfare.com/files/dutch/interceptor_03.jpg
http://skyraider.allaboutwarfare.com/files/dutch/interceptor_04.jpg
http://skyraider.allaboutwarfare.com/files/dutch/interceptor_captured.jpg

Enjoy :)

[kevjon]

Well there you go. Thanks for the links , I can see what this plane should look like now. Cool looking aircraft. I think between us we have just about built the Dutch WWII airforce.

[Skyraider3D]

I think between us we have just about built the Dutch WWII airforce.Ahem... you mean "2/3rds of the Dutch East Indies frontline fighter force at the time of the Japanese attack"! ;) I forgot the third fighter: the Curtiss Hawk 75 :)
Other than that we had Martin bombers, Curtiss Falcon and Ryan trainers (similar to the Interceptor) and a whole bunch of Fokker and Koolhoven biplanes for ground attack, scouting and training. I am sure I forgot some... And that's only the defense of the Dutch East Indies and only the air force. The naval air service had a lot more planes, including Do 24s and Catalinas.
A delivery of A-20 Havocs was delayed and went to Australia.
Later we got Hurricanes, P-40s, B-25s, B-24s and Mustangs in the end... and much more I can't think of right now :) All Pacific. The European war is a whole story on its own ;)

[giant551]

nice start mate:) I have found the transition to poly's a little rough:) but i can definately see the pro's and cons of both and hopefully soon be able to combine the two skillsets into one model. I still use rhino most days at work and will be keeping a close i on rhino 4 when it comes out. keep it up:D

[kevjon]

Posted by Skyraider3d
Later we got Hurricanes, P-40s, B-25s, B-24s and Mustangs
Any plans to do a Dutch Mustang color scheme ? Never seen one before.
Seems the Dutch airforce was a lot bigger than I realised.

Posted by Giant
I have found the transition to poly's a little rough
Both nurbs and polys are frustrating ways to model. I'm currently trying to model all the main shapes of the aircraft with nurbs and do all the detailing with polys. I too am looking forward to Rhino 4. Better blends sounds good but have to wait till end of the year.

This aircraft does look like a good nurbs project but no harm learning polys, its a good skill to have too.

[Skyraider3D]

Any plans to do a Dutch Mustang color scheme ? Never seen one before.
Seems the Dutch airforce was a lot bigger than I realised.Yep, Dutch Mustang will be coming up... complete with sharkmouth :)
http://misc.kitreview.com/bookreviews/p51dkdutchreviewbg_1.htm
I've already done an Indonesian one, by the way. One of my favourites.

Some info about the RNEIAF in Australia: http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/nei-af.htm


Okay we're sidetracking, back to the Interceptor ;)

[roshent]

Back to the interceptor then...

I got stuck :err: , not in my lacking of modelling skills, but in finding out how stuff looked on this plane. I could have taken some artistic licence to base some parts I can't see on pictures but I got stuck so much that I intend to do some more research on the subject. It's an often neglected plane, probably due to the fact that they didn't really faired that good when the Japanese encountered them over Java back in early 1942. But for some reason I love them. So it's turning more towards researching the subject and getting historic facts right then simply making a mesh.
I've been reading up on the history of the KNILm, only two good books but very cumbersome to read, and then I went to the museum. Should have done that earlier!
The plane isn't there, it is believed none survived, but they have some documentation on it. Just trying to locate it in their vast collection is something different. Lot's of stuff also needs to be cataloged and stuff like that.

So in short, I'm still stuck, but I'm getting there in regard to the details.
Might have to start the mesh over again, but that remains to be seen.

Just to show you something, one picture that's not in Skyraider's collection (yet). PS: I have your first picture in print which shows much more detail as yours does.

I probably start another KNILm plane thread soon. In Rhino I think...

The picture : it shows CW-344 at the Curtiss Wright facility.


1011

[Skyraider3D]

That's a nice picture indeed.

On the pre-crash milmesh there was a walkaround of the only surviving Falcon. The Falcon has many parts in common with the Interceptor, I believe. Did you download it then?

[primer]

Hey, found some reference material lying arround here, maybe you can use it.

[Skyraider3D]

Great stuff Primer :)

If I remember correctly, I should have a bunch of cockpit stuff at home. Not of much use in this stage of modelling though.

[Spinner]

And the much overlooked Douglas D-6.
Only ever an export model theres almost nothing online about her.
The odd damaged fall of Holland pic in a book or two and thats it.

[Skyraider3D]

And the much overlooked Douglas D-6.
Only ever an export model theres almost nothing online about her.
The odd damaged fall of Holland pic in a book or two and thats it.
You mean the Douglas 8A-3N? Try a search for that designation instead :)

[roshent]

Thanks primer, great stuff, I do know the article but I think it's in a different magazine as yours. I also know the photo's just hadn't scanned them in, you saved me that effort !

Yeah Skyraider, I took the pics form the old mil-mesh, I asked him to take them, if I only could remember who took them and uploaded them :err: I could give him credit. In fact none of the panels of the Falcon are the same as on the Interceptor, the falcons after all where used by the KNILm (NEI is wrong for the period) for training gunners for the Glenn Martin's (which were mostly mechanics). Most obvious thing is that the Interceptor has flush rivets.

Another problem is that between delivery of the planes in the states, where some of the pics are taken (all fuselage numbers starting with C, after getting into service with the KNILm they got CW numbers), were reasonably modified by either Curtiss in field or the KNILm mechanics. Even though there were not that many planes produced, Curtiss sure had a great after-sales strategy. Such examples are (that I know off by now) at least 3 different tailwheel conversions, at least two different aft fuselage sections. One different rudder configuration and thus resulting in a different shape. The problem is not that I can't decide which one to build, but getting the facts right on how they actually looked by the start of February 1942.

So far most pictures I've seen and which are used in the article Primer has are from the Thijs Postma collection, actually I don't know yet what happend to him or his collection. I don't believe it's in the Soesterberg museum??

If you got more pictures I sure would like to see them, even if they are not appropiate for my current modelling. I have one picture of the cockpit that I believe is from the Postma collection as well. I included it underneath.

Funny thing is that most information on the empanage has come from a picture of a captured and recaptured example of the Training School Interceptor. At least it's a texture variant... picture underneath as well.

10211022

[Skyraider3D]

I'll have a look where I put these pics.

Perhaps you can drop Thijs Postma an e-mail?
http://www.thijspostmaaviation.nl/
I e-mailed him once, and although his reply was very short he did answer :)

[Skyraider3D]

O here's something that may be of interest...
http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/reference/CW-21B_camouflage.jpg

[roshent]

I was planning to do a few profiles as well, so that is a good starting point for the camouflage...
Thanks!

[roshent]

Just to prove that my WIP is not dead, anyone got some good references to the actual colors? I've looked at the colors at the IPMS Stockholm FS server, but either they are very wrong or not there. I'm recreating the blueprints with the stuff that I know is correct. And would like to shoot for a profile of it, hence the need for colors. Profile is very WIP'ish...

1559

[Skyraider3D]

KevJon would be able to help you with that one :)

[kevjon]

Hi Roshent,

A lot of old publications show Dutch Buffalo's as being RAF dark green and dark earth. Modern opinion is that they were in fact painted Olive drab and medium green with aluminium undersides. I assume your plane would be painted the same as the Buffalo as it is from the same era.

Spent a bit of time working with Skyraider on this who has pretty good eye for correct camo colors. This is what we came up with.
For Olive drab 96,93,68 for Medium green 52,74,60. Dutch orange I used 229,94,0. Aluminium is just a light grey.

[roshent]

Thanks Kevjon and Skyraider for the color info, those colors look more believable then the ones on IPMS Stockholm.

Just an update, the cockpit is very rough, it's just an tryout because one of the remaining unknowns is how square the fuselage tapers after the cowling. Wings are far from done either, but there's more definite stuff there.
Found out there's a museum that has bought all the Curtiss documentation after their demise, including the Interceptor, but their price for the stuff is a bit out my league...

1590

[Skyraider3D]

Nice progress.

Which museum you are talking about? Prices? Sounds very interesting...

[roshent]

This is his website, don't know if it's real museum as we tend to think of:

http://www.memaerobilia.com/

[roshent]

With thanks to forummember David Enders (Denders) for his blueprints I got myself this cooked up. It's not overly detailed, but still enough to break my memory limit in Cinema4D.
There are so many variants in cilinderheads I took some atistic licence in that regard.

CC welcome

1625

[Skyraider3D]

Nice looking, but... what drawings did you use? The Wright R-1820G Cyclone looks different from that. The reduction gear housing is completely missing.

[denders]

It's actually an 1820-56 but the front of the engine cowling is hiding the gear housing.

[Skyraider3D]

It's actually an 1820-56 but the front of the engine cowling is hiding the gear housing.Hmmm... I dont see how? The reduction gear housing is the part between the cylinders and the propeller. Its quite visible.
Also engines tend to differ vastly from one variant to another. Not that anyone would notice... But a missing reduction gear housing will look very odd.


With regards to the cylinder heads, check this:
http://www.ipms.nl/signl/cw-21/cw21-3.jpg

[denders]

It was a drawing of a -56 in a wildcat and the drawing showed the front most section of the cowling, hiding the shape of the reduction gear housing. The front view didn't show alot to help with the gear housing.

That photo should give Hent some additional information.

[Skyraider3D]

There's a good few R-1820 photos online. Finding the right version is a bit more problematic. I sometimes find looking at scale models of radial engines can help making sense out of all the mess. At least nothing vanishes into black darkness as on most photos of the real thing...
http://www.neomega-resin.com/vector/32-006.jpg
I think this should be the right version for the CW-21B. It's an R-1820G "Late". Note the cylinderheads, they match up with the photo. On the early G models they're more square.


Another great reference, but for the R-1820F-50, can be found here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Wright-Cyclone-a-Profile-supplement_W0QQitemZ260044500876QQihZ016QQcategory Z19164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[roshent]

Hi crew,

The engine at the moment doesn't have a reduction gear, since I made the engine in a seperate file, it's not scaled up to the plane yet and prob won't be until I finish off that part of the fuselage. So in order not to look through it I just made a plate with some nuts on it...

The engine in the CW21 is a very early 1820 engine, certainly not a G model (which I believe stands for Geared). Most engines that were based on the 1820 and are used in later models like the B17F and G onwards look dramatically different. Prob. due to the higher horsepowers they develop. I found different cilinder headshapes all over the place, and especially in musuem pics. Also there is a difference between where the ignition harness is located, in front of the pushrods or behind it. I haven't modelled the carter ventilation either since I hope I can get a better reference for it.

I've seen that resin model of the 1820 you referenced to (as well as others), as well as the pic of the CW21B with it's engine cover open. I managed to loose sight of that pic however and now see that I didn't accuratly model the valve covers. I'll adjust that, although you won't see much of it with the enginecover closed...

I'm not sure of that book you mentioned on E-bay, I don't know the seller but got a suspicion that it's only a textbook, he doesn't mention how many pages there are.

I leave the engine for what it is at the moment. Want to return to the wings and fuselage for now.

[Skyraider3D]

The engine in the CW21 is a very early 1820 engine, certainly not a G model (which I believe stands for Geared).Not quite. The CW-21B is equipped with the R-1820G-100. G is just the version indication, no abbreviation. So I believe the G "Late" is appropriate for your aircraft and the model pictures should be a half decent reference, for lack of better. After 1942/43 US aero engines got new designations, indicated with a number rather than a letter. For instance the R-2800B became the R-2800-8.


I have the Ebay item and it's a very small booklet, which looks like it's printed on a regular deskjet printer. It basically gives a description of the engne, some factory photos, lots of scale drawings aimed at scale modelling and a thorough description on how to scratchbuild the engine. Overall extremely useful for 3D modelling purposes.

[roshent]

Not quite. The CW-21B is equipped with the R-1820G-100. G is just the version indication, no abbreviation.

Hmm, I hadn't researched this much, since I all got the same engine in my sources, and presumably only one production run makes it likely that only 1 engine variant is used. The Chinese examples may have a different version.
Wonder where you got that info from, all sources I have (but they might be copying from each other off course) is a Wright R-1820-G5.

To contradict my own believe in regard to that G, they also state a direct drive engine, so no reduction gear??
source for that bit : http://www.warbirdforum.com/cw212.htm
And to be honest, I don't see one in that open cowling picture you posted just a few posts ago...looks direct-drive to me.

They also state that G5 engine. Or is that the same as the G-100. I presume you have a source for that, do they state a HP setting for that G-100 ??

I have the Ebay item and it's a very small booklet, which looks like it's printed on a regular deskjet printer. It basically gives a description of the engne, some factory photos, lots of scale drawings aimed at scale modelling and a thorough description on how to scratchbuild the engine. Overall extremely useful for 3D modelling purposes.

A4 size ?

Hmm, more to stuff to investigate. Not much is simple stuff on this plane...more investigating then modelling. Maybe I got carried away with that enginemodelling and have to do it again... :eek:

On another subject, this was just posted on the NEI messageboard by P.C. Boer, you prob. know him from his books in regard to colors:
----------
> The ML did not use US manufactured olive drab nor similar olive drab
> manufactured elsewhere.
> This is absolutely certain! The two dark greens of the ML were different
> and were initially produced in Java in 1940. They remained green
> (although they became lighter) after much sun exposure while the olive
> drab became brownish.
> Best.
> Peter

[Skyraider3D]

Hmm I may be wrong then and it was the G-5. Can't find the article anymore that said it was a G-100. But if it's a G-5, then great, as more reference is available for it. Finnish Buffaloes used this engine too, you see.

The booklet is indeed A4 size.

more investigating then modelling
Part of the fun :lol:


Maybe of interest?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Wright_R1820_Cyclone.jpg
http://www.warbirdforum.com/cyclone.htm
http://www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/models/cw21b.htm

[roshent]

Maybe of interest?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Wright_R1820_Cyclone.jpg
http://www.warbirdforum.com/cyclone.htm
http://www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/models/cw21b.htm
Luckily my google qualities are somehow up to par.. know all the links...
Like I said I got carried away yesterday getting that engine done that I didn't stick to my references anymore, should have done that... I'll try it again... first want to finish the wings, my third set ...

[Lukem]

Don't know if this helps...but...

You mentioned memory limit in C4D earlier in the thread regarding blueprints? I've had the same problems, but I've found that saving the blueprints as .psd format helps.

Keep up the good work!

[roshent]

Good tip Lukem, didn't know about that one, I just updated the virtual memory in windows and that did the trick. But I'll keep that one in mind...:cool:

[mathew woodgrowse]

My addition to this project. I used b/w photos as a background, to work out correct lines, as much as possible.


http://www.zshare.net/image/2934827dd2130c/]cw_21_10.jpg

My plans are to illustrate an article of Bouko de Groot, about Dutch camouflage schemes. The key idea is that both upper colors of ML-KNIL were GREEN, as Peter Boer states - no any shades of brown.

[roshent]

Hi Matthew, I'm not much doing on the project at the moment. More non-military stuff keeps me busy 3D wise. But the color 'problem' is much discussed with Peter and still the jury is out on what specific colors are used. As I understood it, he is doing interviews again with some ML-KNIL personnel but that topic is off course difficult to explain without an actual sample.
I don't know where you or Bouko are located, but the Glenn Martin part that came from the Jungle of Borneo is at the Museum in Soesterberg and can be viewed.

As far as blueprints go, there has been some advancement in that regard, but I haven't made an actual CAD drawing as of yet. But the junction between the exhaust plate and the cowling should be flush, also the cowling is not sticking out AFAIK. The rudder keeps a straight line towards the top of the empenage, not a curve as you have now.
The cockpit sliding rail is straight and not curved. And I think the tail wheel housing looks different then you have now.

But great to see others are busy with this much overlooked plane !!

[mathew woodgrowse]

Hi Roshent

I am a modest translator and interpreter from post-soviet world: in fact, I live in Belarus. Therefore, I got very little chance to reach Soesterberg and observe true colors of ML-KNIL )) Anyway, I am about to finish profile in the same way I did at Hawk 75 and Buffalo: salade-green and very dark green. USAAF used almost similar shades during Nam war.

To confirm some things, especially the shape of tail wheel cover, I will show how all the project started: I took well-known photo of CW-344, flop it and used as raster pattern in COREL, to create basic lines. I also used many other b/w shots for comparison and matching, as well as Maintenance and Erection Manual for SNC-1, donated by Don Hinton.

http://www.zshare.net/image/29806780cd2ef9/

The work is far from finishing: there are things I'm not quite sure about, for instance, wing surface lines and location of UC doors. I can finish it, basing on the assumption that CW-21 and SNC had the samе sweep angle, profile etc. - but it is nothing but an assumption.

[roshent]

Hi Mathew,

From Belarus to Soesterberg is indeed a hike :lol: !

I dont think I saw you profiles on the Hawk or the Buff, can you post them or are they still disclosed until the book/article comes out ??

The picture of CW-344 is a bit of problem, first it's not totally orthographic as I see you've understood that in your picture. I think I understand now why you got the top part of the rudder bend rearwards on your profile. The rudder of 344 on that picture is not straight with the rest of the tail, it's a shadow that fools you into thinking that, I think. Just look at the shadow of the plane projected on the ground. The sun is to the tail but also in front of the plane.

Secondly CW-344 is not the plane they delivered to the ML-KNIL in that configuration. Of the documents it's clear that the picture is taken early in the development of the KNIL specification. Before that they only produced the Chinese examples of the 21. It is believed (so not sure) that 344 is the POC, Proof of Concept plane. It was either a Chinese spec plane or the original experimental plane which they modified to get to the KNIL spec.

One other thing I've noticed is that the exhaust is not seen from the side of the plane. You have the location correct, but it's a much smaller exhaust and hardly seen even from an partly rearview.

The wings of the Falcon (CW22 or SNC-1) are somewhat the same except the tried to make it a lighter wing. So they used flush rivets for the Demon and not as many panels. If you want I can send you some pictures of the Falcon wing.

BTW: I think Bouko is part of the Nei yahoo group as well ??

[roshent]

Well just to show a render I hadn't shown here yet, this is how far I got with the wings:

3888

[mathew woodgrowse]

Hi, Roshent

I see no problem in posting profiles of Dutch Hawk 75, Buffalo or FW-58 here - that is the thing I'm doing now. Profiles are not being disclosed, as I got no formal bounds with aviation press - after all, Buffalo is my second computer-made profile, Hawk 75 was fifth - in other words, I'm not experienced enough, to publish it.

So, you guess, CW-344 was a POC aircraft possibly built acc. to Chineze specification. Does it mean, from your point of view, that serial Chineze-built CW-21, unlike Demonstrators, would have had the same undercarriage, as CW-21B later had - without nacelles?

Yes, Bouko de Groot and Peter Boer are the most active members of NEI Yahoo Group. I'm not a member of this community, and personally not familiar with these outstanding jentlemen; however, looking for shots of CW-21 and other Dutch planes, I visited NEI Yahoo Group and Rec.Models.Scale. and read their postings there rather often.

Cheers!
Mathew

[roshent]

Those profiles look good enough Mathew to post them in our 2D section. That way you'll bound to get some feedback on them.

The Chinese examples did have the undercarriage nacelles. They were first removed on one of the experimental planes, possibly 344 as well.
The wing was modified to adapt the new undercarriage. How much of the original wing was still on 344 is a guess I think. They are apparently some drawings in the Soesterberg museum but I still have to see them.

[roshent]

Well just a tiny update visually, but a big step for me. I finally decided how the glass panels of the cockpit look. There is a mix of photo's which shows different layouts. So wether it's really accurate is another point, it still stays one persons interpretation of a photo from someone elses. And it is known that the layout was altered when the planes arrived in the NEI.
I decided to go forward a bit and added in the flare chutes in the rear fuselage (which was difficult for me to keep the fuselage in shape) and am now deciding who's interpretation of the front of the fuselage is right. Some say it's the same shape as the front of the cowling, others say it's more flatter at the top... we'll see... I also added in some cockpit instrumentation when I saw Galgot's efforts I just had to have a go at it...

[attach]4396/attach]

(At least I'm not the one with the oldest running WIP without updates anymore...)

AD : I still wish someone makes an FAQ about uploading pictures, I still don't manage it... :eek:

[Lukem]

Looking good mate - the flare chutes look really good.

How are the wires looking around the rear edge of the canopy? I'm trying to work out where the crease has come from.

[roshent]

Thanks mate !

Well I made a copy from the low poly mesh, only a few rows of polygons of that mesh, and thru that in a hyperNURB. Made it editable after playing with the density settings until I got a reasonable high polycount. Gave it a symmetry object and a HyperNURB again. Only problem is that if you make a wire render the whole thing looks silly, with low and high poly meshes. Therefore I made low poly hyperNURB render underneath. There is some dent now just in front of the flares, but that's cause I'm busy there at the moment...if that's the crease you've meant..??

EDIT: just noticed that I used a different technique, so adjusted the text...

4398
4399

[Gibbage]

Its a good start so far. I modeled a Cw-21B for IL2, but Oleg has not put it in the game yet. I dont know if it ever will get put it! Here is the one I did at 4500 poly's.

http://www.gibbageart.com/images/cw21b_01w.jpg

[roshent]

Hi Gibbage,

I've seen ingame screenshots of your model. I don't own IL2 so haven't seen it myself. But it does look good. Even being lowpoly..!! Only the Chinese markings don't go with the landing gear, but I bet you knew that..

[Gibbage]

Those are mainly "what if" markings. A few Cw-21B's were sent to the AVG, but they crashed in route.

[Gibbage]

This may help a little. I dont think I saw this posted yet.

http://www.gibbageart.com/files/expview_s.jpg

[roshent]

Of the CW21B that went to China, only one made it. That plane was a demonstrator and was later reported to have been crashed without seeing action.
Dunno if it's in this thread, I have this drawning as well. But this drawning is not accurate. It looks impressive, I agree...

[Lukem]

Hi Roshent. Thanks for the wires - looks very clean around the chutes.

The crease I was on about is the one at the rear corner of the canopy (you can see it in the first wire you posted), or is that intentional?

[roshent]

I think what you mean is part of the canopy, and that is intentional, it's just not well formed yet. It's an opening for the canopy slider. If you mean the corner underneath in the fuselage that something that still has to be optimized...

I had a silly experience with C4D yesterday, that made me go back a few steps so now some stuff has to be remodelled. Each time I opened the file a few points ended up on 0,0,0 no idea what caused it...

[mathew woodgrowse]

Hi, folks

This is my last CW-21 side view update. I used recent color profile made by Tierry Dekker, for comparison and (possible) correction, where I found it relevant. For instance, the shape of exhaust fairing under the cowling seems to be more correct in my sketch. The exhaust pipe itself looked too much narrow, to pass through all that flaws from 1200 hp piston engine. I saw profiles of CW-21 of many artists, and they all repeat the same mistake - seems to me, I know why. There was Venturi pipe close to it, and they might confuse these details.

(By the way, Ed Schilling (ex. Flying Tigers) once mentioned that he had factory drawings of CW-21 at his own).

Cheers
Mathew

[roshent]

If I get you correctly, you only did the bottom drawing right ?

That drawing still has some issues. Actually quite a number of them. PM me and I'll take you throught it !

And do you mean Erik Schilling instead of Ed Schilling ?
Wonder what happend to these drawings, dunno if he's still alive actually...

[mathew woodgrowse]

Really, not. All the thing is a kind of suggestions, based on several b/w photos. But I have no doubt that exhaust pipe should be WIDE, to let the flaw through!

Ed Schilling, of cource. He was alive yet two or three years ago, and I hope he is now.