Reference Setup in modo (hey, kiwi)

[zarroun]

A quick question for the modo users. I keep strugling with a good precedure to setup all the reference views. I know you can easily add an image to the viewport. Though I keep arguing with modo about size, aspect ratio. It sometimes even changes the picture's size in one viewport if I add a picture in another viewport. Let's say though I have all the views saved and have keyboard shortcuts all set up, I would still like to have the cross sections in there. I am pretty comfortable now with a setup like this:

http://images5.theimagehosting.com/setupScreen.jpg

I guess I could lock the selection of the image planes so I don't accidently select them. What method have you learned to use in modo? Thanks!

[kiwi123]

Are you a 201 or a 103 user ?

[zarroun]

Sorry, failed to mention that. I am using 201 now (yay me ;))

[kiwi123]

Ok, you can add a "background item" in the item list, which you can then use as your background image (select it's properties like you would for a normal background). These you will never select unless you willingly do so.
I also disable the background view in perspective mode as it annoys me. Setting overlay on can be handy so you can see the lines over your model even when it is shaded. I just use 3 views and fill up the empty spaces in the image with things like the cross-sections.
Hope this helps

[zarroun]

Cool, Backdrop Items work very well for this. The drag 'n' drop functionality is perfect for this purpose! Thank you for the tip. I still have to argue with modo about the scaling of the images though. Some are imported at the right scale, others show up at a seemingly random size. Do you know why?

[kiwi123]

glad I could help !

[zarroun]

Okay, just to make sure I'm not crazy, I checked the sizes and dpi of the images
in Photoshop and they all match up, yet modo kinda chooses its own scale. Hmpf...

[kiwi123]

The "random" scale only happens to me when I replace a background image that was already there, it maintains the size and aspect ratio. I just delete the old one and make a new one, problem solved and just as quick.

[zarroun]

Nope, that's not solving the problem for me. It's not restricted to one viewport, but it's the top and bottom images that come out too small, no matter where i place them.

[kiwi123]

Reading back I think it could be misunderstood. What I meant was, if you drop an image into a background, it will take the properties of the one that was already loaded (size and aspect ratio). Therefore it needs to be cleared of any background items first.

[zarroun]

It's really strange. No matter what order I put them in, the same two images come up in a smaller scale. Interestingly enough, it's the top and bottom view of the blueprints. Once I can sort this out, I'm sure I'll have other questions for you. Thank you.

[Spinner]

Zarroun,
If you resolve this problem please post the outcome. I'm considering Modo, so interested in others' experiences.

[kiwi123]

Hey Zarroun, if you want to send me the images and scene, I can see what the problem might be. Send it to wiek at luijken.com

[mrys]

I'am just looking for new soft for me (PovRay is to troublemaking) and Modo is in my sight. But I have similar problems with base blueprints. I tried to put them by Backdrop Image command, but have the same one in all viewports. After putting next, top for example, in the top view I had this also in Front and Left view. Hmm... And after restarting Modo it was there.

Besides for me modo looks very promising - I'am skilled rather in NURBS modelling, but found here tools, that IMO making work with polys a little similar to that what I know. And in this kind of modelling is much better then Max (IMO).

[zarroun]

I'am just looking for new soft for me (PovRay is to troublemaking) and Modo is in my sight.
Wow, you are using POV Ray? So you're the one :p. I started out with POV Ray and Moray in 1995. When I looked at 3D max the first time, I felt like I discovered that the world is not flat ;). Very tedious to work with, but it's still a great Raytracer.

Hey Zarroun, if you want to send me the images and scene, I can see what the problem might be.
Thank you so much, I sent you a .zip file with all the jpgs in it. I would really like to convert to modo, but it's kinda hard to change packages after working with one for a while.

[mrys]

Wow, you are using POV Ray? So you're the one :p.


Yeah, sometimes I feel that I'am the last;). It was good school for scripting. You will be suprised, but for PovRay I leave Max. In Max 3 quality of render was not satisfied me and additional renderer (Brasil for example) was to expensive. So I chose PovRay with its radiosity and other advanced functions for free. Now it is time to end the school...

[zarroun]

That's great. You're the first person I talk to that has worked with POV Ray. I downloaded it the other day just for grins and giggles to see how the engine is doing. Still great, but still to tedious. Do you have any POV renders to show? Would be interesting to see!

[mrys]

Most of works on my website (look at the bottom of post;)) were rendered in PovRay and all I show on this forum also.

[zarroun]

That's POVRay? Sweet! Don't think I'd have the patience to make it look like that.

[kiwi123]

I used povray as well, started with DKBtrace in the late eighties, converted to polyray and later povray. Then went onto 3dstudio (not Max) in 1991, lightwave in 1992/1993. A bit of max, maya, c4d, xsi etc inbetween. Now actually made a real switch from LW to Modo. Although LW is never touched for modeling again, the layout is still nice.

[mrys]

That's POVRay? Sweet! Don't think I'd have the patience to make it look like that.
Of course PovRay is only for texturing, mapping and rendering. I model in Rhino. Theoreticaly PovRay is able to build also so complex objects as planes, but I'am not so masochist to do that.:lol:


I used povray as well, started with DKBtrace in the late eighties, converted to polyray and later povray. Then went onto 3dstudio (not Max) in 1991, lightwave in 1992/1993. A bit of max, maya, c4d, xsi etc inbetween. Now actually made a real switch from LW to Modo. Although LW is never touched for modeling again, the layout is still nice.

Oh, it is nice to see someone, who also remember good old DKBtrace and 3Dstudio (not Max).

[kiwi123]

yeah, those were the days :lol:

[zarroun]

Oh, yeah. I forgot that it was called 3D Studio back then. 3D Studio 4 was the first version I looked at. Ah, the good old DOS days...

I figured you didn't model the planes in POV, but I still wouldn't have the patience to set up the textures and lighting.

[mrys]

Oh, yeah. I forgot that it was called 3D Studio back then. 3D Studio 4 was the first version I looked at. Ah, the good old DOS days...

I figured you didn't model the planes in POV, but I still wouldn't have the patience to set up the textures and lighting.
So my patience is over;).

PovRay needs to much time to set up all you want properly. There is no GUI, so you have to render image time after time to see what have you just screwed up. And after about six milions trial renderings you are ready to great final.

Solutions could be Moray - GUI for PovRay, but it never used all PovRay possibility. To have full control you was forced to write directly in PovRay. Especially if you used nonstandard scripts - it is mean always;).

But PovRay has many advantages also: their native objects was not meshes, but mathematical constructs - it is mean, that sphere was real sphere no groups of flat polys, not bad radiosity (hard to set up), unique shader system with such effects as caustic, fresnel reflections and many others. And of course fantastic script language scene description! On the other side, if you lost one "}" in few hundred lines of code of one material.... looking for "why not working now?" is the way full of pain and suffer. But in good, patient hand it is very powerfull. But not, if you have to finish next book's cover until next monday:D.

[kiwi123]

Oh man, you are gonna love playing around with interactive renderers like modo has...change something on your material, instant update.... although nothing can beat Fprime & Lightwave !!

[mrys]

Oh, I love it just after few trials. If only I will be able to solve problems with blueprints, who knows... Maybe found some that I was looking for...:)

[zarroun]

I just checked my thread on the luxology board. No one has been able to answer my questions either, but there's the general confusions about Backdrop Images and Backdrop Items. I don't know why people keep doing that.

[Spinner]

You'd think the 'Product Support' section would have a company guy dropping through regularly. Seems not?

[kiwi123]

No, you would think that wouldn't you.

[mrys]

I have the same problem with scale of imported images. Great program but this simple thing is screwed up:\. Or maybe I missed something. How to precisely scale Backdrop Item (need to be 22,86 cm for example)?. I found only percentage scaling:(

[kiwi123]

what i do for stuff like this:

create background images at 1024x1024 for all around, this is the maximum resolution anyway and you will not get any scaling issues as they are all the same size.

when you need your model to be an exact size, I make a box with those proportions, scale the blueprints until they fit.

[mrys]

what i do for stuff like this:

create background images at 1024x1024 for all around, this is the maximum resolution anyway and you will not get any scaling issues as they are all the same size.

Hmm... good advice! I use similar trick in Rhino, why did not tried it for modo?

[kevjon]

It is interesting that it is this difficult to setup blueprints in modo.

In max I just map the blueprint images to planes that are the same size as the image rather than set them up as background images of the viewport. Would of thought the same could be done in modo but never having used the application.....don't really know.

Sounds like fun.

[kiwi123]

Of course you can map it to a box with no problem whatsoever, but then you do not have the funky features of the background item. These you can set to always overlay your model, including opengl. They will not be selected, etc.

[Spinner]

I'm in love with mapping to a plane with real time shading an alpha map. Got XSI set up so theres just the ink lines of the sections and silouettes floating disembodied in the views, unselectable, with the white area of the drawing 100% transparent.
Finally, ref blueprints like they should be on a 'puter.
I'd expect you could do it with Modo?

[zarroun]

Since modo rocks in any other aspect, i'm sure luxology is working on a good way for reference setup as we speek. Let's see what the next point release brings us.

[zarroun]

Here's a useful link to a video that demonstrates the reference setup in modo:

http://content.luxology.com/modo/201/video/ReferenceImages.mov

[zarroun]

Okay, I did a little detective work about those images and here's what I found out:

It really is the best choice to make your reference images square. kiwi123, you suggested not to import images bigger than 1024x1024 since modo resizes images anyway and I did a bit of testing there. Here is the result:
I imported my image once at 1024x1024 and once at 1650x1650. Surprisingly, they both came up at the same scale, but not with the same quality.
http://images5.theimagehosting.com/modoTest.jpg
I kinda expected there not to be a big difference because of modo resizing the images.
I would assume it depends on your system, but the difference in load time and OpenGL frame rate between the two sizes is not worth mentioning. My system is not that great at the moment (had to downgrade to a MX 440 due to system failure :frown:), so anyone above that should be fine.

There still is the unanswered question as to why modo has these weird scaling issues, but like kiwi123 figured out, keeping the images square helps avoid these.

Hope this helps a little.

[kiwi123]

That is quite a big difference !
Maybe they have increased the size to 2048 or higher for 201....

[zarroun]

Actually, they went up to 4096. That's pretty nice. You can change it under System>Preferences>Display>OpenGL. It's the first option there. My card just doesn't support that high a resolution for OpenGL :(.

[kiwi123]

Now 202 is available, you can play around with a new setting for the background images (in your preferences). You can set the size of a pixel in cm. And also the problem you had before has been fixed Zarroun !

[Big Red 11]

Lux really stunned us with such a quick release of 202, nobody really expected it so soon. Hopefully all the little quirks have been smoothed out.

[kevjon]

Kiwi

How is the modo rendering engine & materials with creating subtle bump and spec maps. Can you achieve nice results with it for aircraft work ?

[Spinner]

WTG luxology!

[zarroun]

Sweet! I just visited to tell everyone that the modo demo is available. I got an email for that, but not that 202 is out. Weird!

Looking forward to testing out the new modo. Thanks for letting us know.

[Spinner]

It comes off their servers nicely too. Considering the load they must be carrying atm, its smooth and fast.

[Skyraider3D]

Marek, with your experience in NURBS, Modo would possibly the last place for you to look.
Try XSI instead :)