need informations about flight

[afanissiev]

Hello, this is my first post on that very interesting forum. (I apologize for my bad english.)

I am curently working on a personnal animation about an f4u Corsair (later Korean war model) and I realised I did'nt know anything about military flight. This is why I think this place is the best place to get good informations.

I have modelized and textured my f4u and I am now working on the cockpit. I have found several references for it (f4u pilot manual, training videos...) and think I will have several questions later.

For the moment my big interrogation is about lights af the plane. I do not know when use it (only at night or in combat? or both? or never?) What kinds of lights exists on a military plane like the f4u? What frequency? My animation is supposed to take place at the evening so it is a very important detail if I want to make something believable.

I also want to know an approximation of the proppeller frequency (number of turns per minute) and I need ressources for good fu4 engine sounds... Where can I found such a thing?

I am not doing an historical animation, just trying to make a stunning short movie with great and beautiful airplanes. That is why my f4u is not completely faithfull and I apologise to you, big military meshes fans. ;)

thanks for reading, hoping I have interested someone with my questions.
http://www.studio-namo.biz.st/images/3d_f4u.jpg
http://www.studio-namo.biz.st/images/3d_f4u01.jpg

[cobra6]

Hello and welcome Afanissiev :)

Concerning your question I reckon the only lights that would be on in flight are the navigational lights, although I do not know if combat planes use them when they actually attack target, it somewhat gives away their position to ground to air crews too.

As for the propeller, my guess would be to look up the engine it used an plainly copy the RPM (revolutions per minute) value. That would be the quickest and the easiest.

Then again I am no expert on this particular subject ;)

ps: Oh and very nice bird!

Cobra 6

[afanissiev]

Thanks for your help cobra6.

I have found some informations about the engine of my f4u, it seems to be a Pratt & Whitney R-2800-32W. I think "R-2800" means 2800 RPM.

About the lights of the Corsair I have also planned sequences in the cockpit in witch the pilot turns on the cockpit lights. But on my references, I do not see where are the lights in the cockpit... (I see where to place the turn on/off button.)

I also need informations about the gunsight. I have read the gunsight is a mk20 but I cannot found good references for it. More over I do no understand how it works. Is the glass just supposed to display a lighted cross? nothing else?

[japme]

To the best of my knowledge, the 2800 is only the Series of engines, it has nothing to do with the RPM...

The cockpit lights are usually recessed and hooded, so that they illuminate the instruments and the pilots lap, they would be red and low intesity, so as not to cause night-blindness

here's an image of the gunsight itself, unfortunately pictures of "sight pictures" are really hard to track down.

http://www.warbirdrelics.com/images/ebay/04262003/gs1.JPG

Hope this helps and good luck, that is a beautiful bird you have there.

[falcon012]

Some casual surfing on google brings these results. This will get you started.

Pratt & Whitney R2800
http://www.pw.utc.com/About+Us/Classic+Engines/R-2800+Double+Wasp

F4U Corsair in Korea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F4U_Corsair
http://www.vectorsite.net/avf4u.html

Various WW2 Gunsights In Operation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7KvpWloagE&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXsVg8F91t8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blem3FlkaMc&feature=related

[afanissiev]

wow thanks for your help! I didn't imagined the gunsight worked like this! It is very strange but very cool! it will be hard to make this for my animation but it is very exciting!

So my P&W have 2,250-2,800 revolutions per minute, it's perfect!

japme, the red lights in the cockpit is a good idea and it could be interesting and beautiful to recreate this. I think I will need more lights to be able to see the pilot face... it's a big challenge to choose the good lighting to keep all this natural...

Thanks to you my engine problem is resolved but the lighting issue is still open...

[Skyraider3D]

Welcome to MilMesh!

To quickly answer your original message, to my knowledge the lights on the F4U didn't blink and they were only used around friendly airfields. In combat they were off.

Although I can see some errors (flaps lack curvature), your Corsair looks good from the few images you've shown.

[afanissiev]

Thanks Skyraider, as a big fan of your work since years (via cgtalk) I am very proud to debate.

You are right my f4u is full of big and not big mistakes. I can add that the airtakes have a wrong shape, and I don't know if I can fix it without generating lot of work... I will try but I thing I can fix the flaps with no difficulties. I say again that I am not making a historical project, the most important to me is to catch the strong spirit of that great plane in an artistical way.

I have seen your Corsair in your WIP section and it looks amazingly accurate; I cannot wait to see the final result...

[Skyraider3D]

Thanks for your kind comments. I haven't worked on my Corsair for over a year but last time I did I had to do some major reshaping as I wasn't happy with the fuselage cross sections. Being in possession now of some 130 factory drawings of the Corsair, I have to admit my 3D model is accuratish as best! :lol:

For animation your Corsair is going to work just fine, it was just the straight flap that immediately caught my eye.

[Galgot]

Very interesting project, and nice model.
Hope you will show us more on how you'r doing this anim, i'm very interested to see...
The "R-2800" is for the cylinder displacement (la cylindree) , 2,804 cubic inches, i think...
Not helping you much.. i know :lol:

Cheers

[afanissiev]

I will certainly post pictures of my cockpit later but for the pure animation part maybe I will choose a animation specialised forum like Cgtalk. I have planned to make this personnal project in 2 or 3 years so the animation part will be done in one or two years. (I am working on it since 6 months.)

I have done a very short teaser for the project that can be seen here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJEY91kGZfE) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJEY91kGZfE

It is just an animation test to estimate the time and ressources I need to finish my short.

The plane is a Mig19. yes I Know the mig19 first production was in 1955 and my video takes place 1953. The korean pilots used mig15 but I think the mig19 is far much handsome so I decided to disrespect the History. Yes it is bad. Sorry... But my short will be better with this plane! :)

ps : the afterburner is not accurate at all and I want to add heat effect to the fire... Sorry again.

[Skyraider3D]

O dear o dear LOL :lol:
Throwing an X-wing into the mix might make it even better :p
(sorry hehe :D)


Video looks cool though, but ignoring history for the sake of making a nice image/vid is one of my pet hates. Hollywood does it all the time. That said, I'm a big fan of what-ifs... funny isn't it? :)

[afanissiev]

héhéhé!
The funny thing for me is that I love Hollywood but I :lol: hate StarWars!
Of course, all these things are subject to change... or not... ;)

The mig19 needs a lot of improvements and work.
The mig19 will not be seen as close as the corsair but... I do not like the result for the moment. look :

http://www.studio-namo.biz.st/images/3d_mig19_persp.jpg
http://www.studio-namo.biz.st/images/3d_mig19_top.jpg
http://www.studio-namo.biz.st/images/3d_mig19_bottom.jpg

I have read that the mig19 prototype was in 1953. What if the prototype got lost in Korea? :lol:

[Galgot]

Cool stuff (or Hot, actually...) . Me like that.
fine MiG-19... But if you use it, be prepared for the endless remarks about it not be in use in Korea from planes maniacs like us :p An it could happen even on cgtalk :lol:
Anyway, i agree, MiG-19 very cool plane, one of my favorite.
MiG-15 is less "macho" of course, but i like the more vintage look and that high tail plane...
Will follow that project, looks good, and i'm interested too because wanted to do some MiGs/Mirages anims some days, when i'll have the competences...

Cheers

[afanissiev]

You are right but I will try to explain my choice. In the earlier age of the project the scene was supposed to take place in WW2 when Corsairs fought against japaneses Zeros. While writing the script, I naturally choosen to give big problems to my hero and it came to my mind that the Corsair was a best fight plane than the Zero.
More over, 90% of war films deals with WW2 and I realised that Corsairs were used in Korean War. I decided to replace the Zeros by mig15 which are much more difficult to fight for a Corsair. I have began to modelise the mig15 but I did not like his too simple shape. In my mind, the mig15 simply looks weak compared to the corsair. I have took a look to the mig17 but the mig19 is much more beautifull and impressive. In term of script and emotion, the mig19 is the good choice. In term of History, I know it's bad.

But I hope you will understand that I do not use this plane by lack of culture or education. I know what Duty of Memory means, I have done my student project as an immersive Virtual Reality ww1 battle. :salute:

Galgot it would be a pleasure for me to help you for your animations, specially if you use 3dsmax like me... :)

[Galgot]

I see. No problem for me... It's your choice and your film.
But you'll have to explain that every time again... that can be boring for you ;)

Yes MiG-19 is spectacular, first soviet supersonic. Lot's of power on a small airframe... It was also difficult to fly, from what i've read. Specially at low speed. Fast or crash :D It was not well liked as the MiG-17, which was a super dog-fighter...

I use Maya, but thanks a lot for the offer for help. I'll sure need some cause i have near 0 experience with animation...
But i'll not start anytime soon...

Cheers