F9F Panther - WIP by a (noob)

[diggs00]

Hey guys,

Just got my blueprints setup. Anyone have any recommendations on where to begin? This is my first model, so any comments from you guys will come in very handy.

[diggs00]

OK, got some work done on the panther. Plese see my wireframes and let me know if everything is looking ok. I plan on moving on to the wings once I have performed the corrections to the fuselage if need be.

Also I have one question. Should I start implementing small details(fuel nozzle, nose gun vents, etc) to the simple polys before smoothing them or after?

[kevjon]

Looks good. I would have probably modelled the canopy seperate from the fuselage but there is no right or wrong about this.

Would be nice to see a image with subdivision added so we can see how smooth it looks.

[diggs00]

Thanks kevjon,

See attached for subd examples.

I noticed some weird things going on with the nose. Looks like the edges that run along the length of the fuselage create this weird deformation on the tip of the nose. Any ideas to correct this?

As for the canopy I plan on extracting it from the fuselage. I went this route inorder to get the smooth lines that lead up to the bubble. I hope this does not lead to a pain in the arse.

[hangfire]

I noticed some weird things going on with the nose. Looks like the edges that run along the length of the fuselage create this weird deformation on the tip of the nose. Any ideas to correct this?
You got to get rid of that rectangle mesh at the tip of the nose. You have tightly spaced geometry next to large wide open areas of polys that will create uneven subdivisions. Also the cross-section stations you have dont look right, particularly station r with no engine naucel. Id get rid of them and just use the 3-view drawings.

[Xizor]

like hangfire was saying, sub'd are somewhat picky when it comes time to smoothing, to get a nice smooth mesh you need to have even or close to even space lines/splits, the more detail you want to add to the object means the more spilts needed, too many splits can become complicated and many people choose to get the main shape done first and then split up the geometry and add detail to it then.

[Spinner]

I'd get rid of the 4 three edge joints in your nose mesh. They're pulling it around, with the dense mesh between them.

[kevjon]

I think if you spaced out the edges on the nose so they are more evenly spaced around the nose cross section you will get a much smoother mesh than having them all packed together like you currently have.

Hard to describe in words so hope you know what I mean.

[diggs00]

Ok guys,

Thank you for the comments, very appreciated. Here are my results. Much better I would say.

I did find one more problem in the the tail section. Please comment, your words are golden.

[hangfire]

You'll have to put some hard edges on the trailing edge of the tail so it holds shape during a subdivide. Even then you'll probably have to clean up a bit as sub-d'ing tugs things in.

[Galgot]

Hey ! A plane in Maya :)
Looks good so far. The Panther seems to have some difficult shapes. For the trailing edges to stay sharp, i usually don't weld the vertices there... just snap them. Of course you can add a edge just before the trailing edge, to do a small thickness.

[giant551]

The nose is looking much better keep it up:D

[diggs00]

Hey guys,

It has been a while. Here is my latest.

[kevjon]

Good to see your back on it. Its coming along nicely.

[diggs00]

Question on cutting out flaps. Do you recommend cutting after smoothing the mesh or do it in low poly then smooth?

[krazycolin]

i always do the cuts before... that way i can keep the mesh low while working.

[kevjon]

I cut out the flaps, ailerons, rudder and elevators after collapsing the mesh to high poly, so it all looks crisp and clean. I then remodel those items seperately in low poly.

[diggs00]

Been a while, but i got all control surfaces cut, added fuel tanks and nose guns. Question: I want to start detailing the canopy next, but am unsure how to tackle it. Any ideas?

[kevjon]

Nice progress on your Panther.

I always collapse the mesh to high poly and then cut out the glass. I draw splines in 3D first where the canopy framing is to go. Once these look right I then cut out the glazing.

[diggs00]

Okay, reworked the nose guns and about to be complete with the rear tail hook assembly. Thanks to Deetz for his shader/light setup.

[Deetz]

Nice detailing Diggs, looking good! :)

Deetz

[Nils]

That is really good progress Diggs, and very nice detailing on the tailhook.

[kevjon]

Good to see your still at it. Tailhook does look really well detailed although I doubt this would show in any final renders.

Your wings are the biggest issues at the moment which need some refinement in cross section, plan view shape and around the intakes by carefully study of some photos. Everything is just a bit too soft and rounded and needs to be crisper.

[diggs00]

Thanks for the comments guys, I wish I had the time to get more done.

Kevjon:
Not sure what you mean by crisper edges. See photo below as to me it shows a rounded edge along the wings and intakes.

[diggs00]

I have the canopy frame separated from the fuselage. The frame is now ready to be combined with the the fuselage (image1). I then merge verts once combined (image2). I then collapse mesh or smooth in maya and get the problems of the fuselage mesh not joining with the canopy frame as it should(Image3: they still look like separate objects). I am at the end of my rope and need some help.

[Galgot]

Looks like the vertices are not merged... Maybe try to snap them together by hand , merge, than smooth... to try. Maybe the vertices don't touch each others and your Merge Vertices Options are set to a very low value, so the merge don't work...

[diggs00]

Looks like the vertices are not merged... Maybe try to snap them together by hand , merge, than smooth... to try. Maybe the vertices don't touch each others and your Merge Vertices Options are set to a very low value, so the merge don't work...


Glagot:
Just double checked and they are all merged to one CV.

[Galgot]

Ok... Then it could be that the normals are inverted on one of the objects you combined. Try to display the mesh normals to see if some aren't pointing inside...

[Deetz]

hrmm, not sure why it won't smooth that area. Something to try after it's smoothed perhaps is to add an edge loop above and below the line that used to seperate the 2 components. Select all 3 edge loops (select 1 line from each loop and go Polygons>select>select contiguous edges) then on your menu go to Normals>soften edges. This removes the hard crisp line and smooths it out for you.

Not a solution but a workaround if you don't find the problem perhaps.

Deetz

[diggs00]

Galgot and Deetz,

It was the normals. Thanks for your help guys. The canopy has been the hardest thing to model so far. This being my first attempt at 3d modeling, I think it came out ok. Let me know what you think.

[Deetz]

Nicely done Diggs :)

Deetz

[diggs00]

Nicely done Diggs :)

Deetz

Thank Deetz, it means a lot coming from you. Now that I have the canopy completed, I will be moving on to the airbrakes located underneath the fuselage behind the nose gear.(see pics).
How would you guys handle this?

[Galgot]

Don't know much that plane's canopy, but it looks good.
About the airbrakes... that's the kind of piece that makes 3d a head breaker :lol: Is the airbrake panel already separated from your fuselage mesh ?

[Deetz]

option A: I'd leave those panels up until you collapse your mesh, once the panels are cutout from the main body I'd just use a transparency map since the panels are so thin.

Option B: Again wait until you cut them out then remodel the pieces, some good hints on how to do that are in the challenge forum.

Deetz

[diggs00]

Don't know much that plane's canopy, but it looks good.
About the airbrakes... that's the kind of piece that makes 3d a head breaker :lol: Is the airbrake panel already separated from your fuselage mesh ?

Galgot:
No the panel is still connected with the fuselage mesh. I was planning on smoothing the mesh then cutting out the airbrake assembly. Adding the correct amount of holes and their placement is going to be the challenge.



option A: I'd leave those panels up until you collapse your mesh, once the panels are cutout from the main body I'd just use a transparency map since the panels are so thin.

Option B: Again wait until you cut them out then remodel the pieces, some good hints on how to do that are in the challenge forum.

Deetz


Deetz,

option A:
The method you used for the machine gun barrel (transparency map) looks like it would be the easiest way to get this accomplished. Again I am new at this and have yet to get my feet wet at uv mapping and texturing.

Option B:
I will try my hand at remodeling the airbrakes once they are removed from the smoothed mesh. What would be the best way to remodel this and stay as close to the original cut out mesh?

[diggs00]

Ok,

Spent all day trying Option B, no go. Moving on to Option A.

[Deetz]

I have another idea I need to try out before I post it Diggs, I just need to find some time :)

Deetz

[Deetz]

Diggs once the panel is removed have you tried using booleans to create the holes?

If you select the panels faces and extrude just a bit to give it some thickness booleans might do the trick.

Deetz

[kevjon]

Maybe the panel could be remodelled in nurbs which work well with booleans and then converted to mesh afterward.

Never having used Maya I could be way off the mark with its nurbs capabilities.