View Full Version : P-40E
P-40E take.......10 :eek:
I've started again! A shock I know :) I was a bit reluctant to post this so soon but, here goes..
I'm going to blame all the less than accurate drawings of the P-40 for my previous failed attempts. A very kind person recently gave me a great set of drawings and I just had to start again, with more detail. I'm hoping to finish it this time.
Evan
kevjon
10-20-2006, 5:43 AM
It's a great start once again.
krazycolin
10-20-2006, 6:12 AM
i hate to say this... but ..... it looks like a good beginning.... though i think your canopy struts (is that the word?) might be a bit too thin...
are you gonna put a sharks mouth on this? gawd, i hope so!!!!
Kevin - thanks again! :)
krazycolin - the canopy frame/struts are actually just a place holder for the moment, so they are a bit rough. They are however modelled straight from factory drawings. The reason they look a little thin I believe is because they have no thickness to them atm, or I should say, I havn't modelled the inside section as yet, which would give them a lot more "thickness".
Spinner
10-20-2006, 6:59 AM
Factory drawings?
Wow, you were lucky there.
Nose is looking good, so far.
kiwi123
10-20-2006, 8:48 AM
Great stuff Evan, good to see your work here again. ANd also good to see someone else model the panels as well :lol:
Looks good Evan! Nice one!
:salute:
Skyraider3D
10-20-2006, 10:47 AM
;) ;) ;)
Great start mate, great start. No comments on accuracy from me! :D
denders
10-20-2006, 1:25 PM
Looks like a great start, keep going!
digiartist
10-20-2006, 3:21 PM
lovely mesh so far, very smooth!
Thanks everyone!
Quick update. Not a great deal that is noticable but thought I would post anyway... Hoping to have the cockpit area finished by the end of the weekend.
Kiwi- yeah, I wanted to try your method (the 123 method I call it :D). The P-40 has quite a few very difficult area's to model as a whole sub d mesh and so I wanted to break it down into pieces a little further than I normally would.
kiwi123
10-21-2006, 10:43 AM
She's looking great mate !
bzhyoyo
10-21-2006, 11:54 AM
Looking great indeed! :)
kevjon
10-21-2006, 12:23 PM
In this render the cowling panels look very convincing when compared to the real thing. Nice update and nice modelling job so far.
Skyraider3D
10-21-2006, 5:19 PM
Awesome awesome awesome. It's a true joy to see this model come together and both knowing and indeed seeing that all the shapes and curves are spot on. I have no doubt that your P-40 will be the most accurate artistic representation of this plane, ever!
PS. Love the WIP render style, by the way.
Big Red 11
10-21-2006, 7:00 PM
I would love to know what render and light settings you use to get a render like that.
kiwi123
10-21-2006, 8:31 PM
It looks like the standard background gradient with global illumination turned on.
Big Red 11
10-21-2006, 8:35 PM
It looks like the standard background gradient with global illumination turned on.
I really have to get into that whole GI thing - I've heard good things about it :D
Thanks again guys!:D
Kevin - Yeah, I was a little concerned the panel over lap might not look convincing but after doing a few renders I think it's looking ok. Doing the wings and wheel housing might be another matter but I'll see how it goes.
It looks like the standard background gradient with global illumination turned on.
Kiwi is right, GI with 2 bounces, default modo background environment and basic "clay" material with no specular. Box antialiasing filter rather than gaussian as I find it a little sharper/nicer for "clay" renders. The light is pretty much your default modo directional light, I think I may have reduced the intensity a little, say 10%.
Oh YEAH!
My plane of choice. top work
Cheers Vex and peter
...here's another small update, just to show I'm still working on it...slowly :)
kiwi123
10-24-2006, 9:27 AM
She's coming along nicely !
giant551
10-24-2006, 10:30 AM
Dam i love those renders:D And the models not shabby either:lol: great work
Skyraider3D
10-24-2006, 10:36 AM
Great work indeed, Evan. Love the patchy effect on the cowling and in front of the windshield. Will you continue this style on the rest of the plane?
peter
10-24-2006, 10:56 AM
Looks very impressive Evan. Very impressive:)
Thank you all...certainly helps to keep me motivated :)
Great work indeed, Evan. Love the patchy effect on the cowling and in front of the windshield. Will you continue this style on the rest of the plane?
You mean the panels don't you Ronnie. Yeah, I think that's it until I get to the tail and wings. I may have gone a little too far with the panels around the cockpit area (may have been better as one whole section and used bump maps for the panel lines) but for the moment I'll leave it as is.
Skyraider3D
10-24-2006, 2:39 PM
may have been better as one whole section and used bump maps for the panel linesNo definitely not better as a bumpmap... it looks fab now! I really like that area, and was hoping you would continue it on the rest of the plane. Can't blame you you're not :)
kiwi123
10-24-2006, 3:35 PM
Yeah, it's such a pleasure when texture mapping as well.... you can take it panel by panel.
Yeah, I figured it would be much easier to unwrap panel by panel rather than as a larger single mesh. Plus, as you say Ronnie, it looks much better I think as actual geometry...I'm just wondering how the PC is goning to handle the polygon count once I get nearer to completing it. Thanks guys!
kiwi123
10-25-2006, 12:06 PM
Just keep everything subD, it'll be fine !
LTDann
10-25-2006, 8:31 PM
Say, that's a heck of a nice P-40. I bet you got that CD full of engineering drawings to do this.
I am getting ready to send the manuscript to the new P-40 in Action to Squadron for publication. There are all sorts of paint schemes you could put on this model.
Rich Dann
Skyraider3D
10-25-2006, 9:43 PM
Rich, will that In Action book feature accurate scale drawimngs for a change? Usually the I/A drawings are pretty cr*p :)
One of the reasons this poor guy is making the P-40 for the hundredth time! :lol:
Otherwise the I/A books are nice, though, giving a good, compact history of the aircraft. I especially like the detail sketches to illustrate the differences between the variants of a type. But I can't help but wonder why they always contain "scale" drawings, which are inaccurate and not to scale, and with the various views not matching up at all. Hopefully new drawings will be made from now on, using CAD/vector software and accurate source material (such as a P-40 factory drawing CD ;)).
LTDann
10-26-2006, 3:00 AM
I based my drawings on the AJ Press drawings, which I consider to be the best ones I have seen. I do have that CD of engineering drawings though.
I was able to find shots of French P-40Ls and Fs, Turkish Tomahawks, and I came into about 65 shots of Brazilian birds. I also obtained one shot of a P-40E that was powered by a Klimov M-108 (or 105) I can't remember, but it was pretty interesting to say the least. I included a drawing of that as well.
One shot that I got for the book shows a P-40D wing in a jig...highlighting the differences of the 4-gun wing gun bays.
Rich
Very nice work. Dare I ask what materials and lighting setups you guys use in these WIP renders? Pictures in generel look more smooth than my mental ray tests.
Skyraider3D
10-26-2006, 12:34 PM
I based my drawings on the AJ Press drawings, which I consider to be the best ones I have seen. I do have that CD of engineering drawings though.I'm sorry to say, but that's a real shame! :confused:
You have the engineering drawings, yet you base the drawings on a non-authentic source, which probably has based their drawings on another non-authentic source and so on. I'm really tired of seeing the same mistakes being repeated time and time again in aircraft drawings, as draftsmen keep copying/modifying extisting drawings rather than going back to the source materials and finally getting it right. I can imagine Evan reading this and nodding :)
I hope at least you cross-checked the drawings you used/made with the factory drawings. In any case, it will be an improvement over current I/A drawings! ;)
Sorry to be harsh, but I am sure many will agree with me. Please don't take it personal, as it's a practise that happens all the time and is a real frustration to 3D artists, as Evan's repeated attempts at making the accurate P-40 model demonstrates clearly.
Anyway, back to Evan's 3D P-40 before this thread derails :)
kevjon
10-26-2006, 2:51 PM
Good going Evan, in some ways this is a ground breaking 3D model as it will be the first aircraft I have seen modelled using factory drawings.
Despite never having tried to model the P40, it remains one of my favorite aircraft. So many cool color schemes to choose from too.
Good luck with further progress....there is still much to do.
Hi guys, next post I'll have some updates (went away for a few days but back now)
No worries guys about the thread taking a turn...very interesting read. I am looking forward to seeing the P-40 in Action publication. I do agree with Ronnie however regarding the problems with most P-40 drawings (if not all) as I have yet to come across a set which have been 100% accurate or as accurate as I have needed. The wings and tail area are normally way off in most drawings but in general the whole aircraft is a bit suspect. eg, shape of the nose intake, cockpit placement and angles, chin intake and the flap positions, rudder shape, elevator shape, size and shape of the spinner, exhaust position and size, etc, etc.... I think the best I have seen are from Mr Matsuba which was kindly sent to my by one of the guys here at MM.com. Enough complaining though, I have no reason to now :)
Kevin - thanks very much! The P-40 is also one of my favourites, if not favourite, not only because it was so widely used but because it does have some very nice colour schemes. I'm looking forward to that stage of the project.
MrKo - cheers! Material is a basic light grey, no spec/reflection and diffuse I normally leave at 80% for most wip renders. Nothing special. Lighting is one directional light from above rear and GI enabled with gradient backdrop as seen. Medium antialiasing setting. I think that's it. I have had very little experience with Mental Ray so I really can't suggestion much there.
LTDann - cheers for your comments.
Kiwi - yep, will do! Thanks.
Skyraider3D
11-16-2006, 10:46 PM
LOL you're not the only one who built the P-40 five times! :lol:
http://www.ijn.dreamhost.com/Non-Naval%20Models/Non-Naval%20Models%20-%20P40%20Warhawk.htm
kiwi123
11-17-2006, 12:05 AM
Show us an update Evan !!!
Will post some soon Kiwi, just been a little busy lately but it's coming along :D
Ronnie, yeah, but by the sounds of it it didn't take five years like mine :\
Not much of an update I know. This is from a few weeks back but I'm back onto it as we speak, working on the main wings.
digiartist
11-21-2006, 8:56 AM
This has to be one of the prettiest looking WIP meshes I've seen.....looking forward to more updates:D
kevjon
11-22-2006, 12:51 AM
Looks great so far Evan, step in underside of fuselage where the tailwheel is located looks strange but I'm sure it something you've got to attend to yet.
Thanks very much digiartist and Kevjon!
About the tail section, yeah, it was just me being lazy and not finishing it off before a "test" render :)
great looking wip mesh, I like how clean it looks. keep it up
Galgot
11-22-2006, 10:27 AM
it already cries for a sharkmouth. very nice.
Thanks guys! Hey Galgot, yep, shark mouth most certainly planned for this one :)
Bit of an update on the wing...
kevjon
11-23-2006, 10:28 PM
The ribbing effect on the ailerons looks perfect. Look forward to seeing the wings attached to the fuselage.
schoenrock
12-12-2006, 8:12 AM
thats looking amazing man, very impressive.
thanks Kevin and schoenrock... it's coming along. Will have another update shortly :D
Spinner
12-12-2006, 9:02 AM
Any chance of a wire when you get a moment, Evan?
It's looking good and a peek at a wire would be interesting.
kiwi123
12-12-2006, 9:47 AM
Good to see you progressing on this Evan !
krazycolin
12-12-2006, 1:41 PM
keep going... looking good...
krazycolin & Kiwi - slowly but surely... and thank you.
Spinner - Will post a wireframe... but I might leave it until I have the main bulk of the aircraft done if you can wait a while...
Some progress on the wings...
http://www.users.on.net/~aleutiantiger/forums/p40/P40_02.jpg
one more
http://www.users.on.net/~aleutiantiger/forums/p40/P40_03.jpg
kevjon
12-13-2006, 7:34 AM
Thats look great...very crisp modelling. I like the way you've tackled the gun ejection port area by modelling a seperate panel, I have to do things this way to when you need lots of detail in areas that need to be smooth and flowing..
kiwi123
12-13-2006, 9:16 AM
Well done Evan !! Can't wait to see your wireframe. Quite curious if it looks anywhere similar to mine (low-poly subD).
Quite surprising how you tackle all the detail in the wing first, before blending with the fuselage.
schoenrock
12-13-2006, 9:21 AM
god damn that is amazing. im hoping that you are going to texture this, and, if you are, it better be the Flying Tigers version with the shark mouth. i just recently posted my start on a DC3 / C47
Mirko
12-13-2006, 10:32 AM
Very nice modeling, Evan!:salute:
Skyraider3D
12-13-2006, 12:16 PM
That's looking great, mate! This must be one of the first times a model is build from actual factory drawings and you're proving it's a superior technique! Not only you get it spot-on accurate this time, your progress is pretty decent too. Can't wait to see this progress further.
Welcome to the Header
Archetype
12-13-2006, 2:12 PM
congrats and welldeserved !
pccdtk
12-13-2006, 10:22 PM
Very nice modeling and impresive details !!! Bravo !!! As usual : How many polygons till now ?
:eek: My first header...thanks guys! And thanks for all the comments.
Yeah, working from factory drawings certainly has worked quite well. A few of the drawings have been hard to read and therefore I have had to work from photographs but in general it's been great, if you have the luxury of time and no deadlines.
I modelled the wing as a separate piece as it was always was going to be the hardest part of the P-40 to get right in my opinion. It has a fair amount of detail/polygons in it but I really wasn't too concerned about that as long as I had enough to work with.
No flying tiger scheme planned for this model although there is a 112 shark mouth aircraft I'd like to do.
Bit more done today... hardly noticeable really but thought I'd post anyway
http://www.users.on.net/~aleutiantiger/forums/p40/P40_04.jpg
Excellent stuff Evan!!! And Congratulations on the header:)
kiwi123
12-14-2006, 9:09 AM
Evan, the update might be hardly noticable, but I think I speak for everyone when I say that we want to see MORE no matter how small the update. She's a beauty !
Galgot
12-14-2006, 9:26 AM
This is very nice ! Clean clean mesh. Congrat for header !
Saw some P-40 construction picts, the wings are made of one piece and placed under the fuselage, then wing fillet added, Like u've made it.
112 sqn is obliged marking choise for P-40E/D :p
kevjon
12-14-2006, 10:07 AM
Yep, she's a beauty all right, great to see it taking shape.
Skyraider3D
12-14-2006, 10:11 AM
Saw some P-40 construction picts, the wings are made of one piece and placed under the fuselage, then wing fillet added, Like u've made it.The beauty of factory drawings - and one hell of a modeller! ;)
Awesome work Evan! Can't get enough of this! :)
I figure by now you are finding your way through the drawings Index. Tricky little thing, but quite useful once you get the hang of it. So many duplicate drawings, which only apply to version such and such... :)
PS. Managed to find a drawing of the P-40K tailfin fillet yet? I haven't, bar a rough sketch... :(
I guess photos will have to help you out here :)
Thanks again guys!
Kiwi - I'll keep em coming...just didn't want you guys getting sick of it before it was finished ;)
Galgot - Thanks. Yeah, that's pretty much how I've modelled/made it.
Ronnie - Yep, I don't there are any tailfin drawings for the K. Shouldn't be too hard to work out from photo's though.. I think.
Skyraider3D
12-14-2006, 11:10 AM
PS. For those curious about the factory drawings, this website has a few of them...
http://www.p40warhawk.com/Models/Technical/Technical.htm
Congrats on the header! I'm still amazed at how smooth you've kept the mesh.
Thanks for the link Ronnie! Looks like an invaluable resource.
krazycolin
12-14-2006, 2:16 PM
Congrats on the header!!! Looks great... and i can't wait to see the sharks mouth... are you going to dirty it up??
Lukem - Thanks! It certainly is much easier to keep smooth when it's modelled in sections/panels.
KrazyColin - Cheers. Dirty it up...... I'll be trying to make it as realistic as possible... but I'll work on getting the model completed first !
songbird
12-15-2006, 1:04 AM
Can't wait to see the final render Evan! Congratulations!
Demons7th_Delta
01-09-2007, 3:13 PM
Very nice P-40E can I ask what is the model's intended use?
Songbird - thanks mate.. And me too! :)
Demons7th_Delta - Personal project. Some still renders/illustrations and hopefully an animation or two. Thanks!
Demons7th_Delta
01-11-2007, 7:09 AM
Eagerly awaits the final product (holds up sign..we want dah P-40!) :D
kevjon
01-11-2007, 7:39 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing this one complete too. The first 3D plane I've seen modelled from factory drawings.
kiwi123
01-14-2007, 2:01 PM
Good stuff mate, very very nice. Crisp edges and all that...
kevjon
01-14-2007, 2:10 PM
Yep, very crisp and clean, great modelling job. Really starting to look the part.
Demons7th_Delta
01-14-2007, 3:48 PM
Keep up the good work Evan. I think you spent good time on the chin, cowl flaps and mid section.
Skyraider3D
01-14-2007, 9:31 PM
Superb stuff mate! It's a pleasure to watch this progress!
PS. Just bumped into a nice P-40K colour pic: http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/McMahan/3771L.jpg
LTDann
01-15-2007, 4:22 AM
That's a P-40E with the fillet normally seen on the K. Here is the serial range
41-35874/36953 - Curtiss P-40E-1.
Thanks all. Cheers for the ref.
Some quick wires for those interested as there seems to be a bit of a demand for them :)
http://www.users.on.net/~aleutiantiger/forums/p40/p40_wire1.jpg
One more
http://www.users.on.net/~aleutiantiger/forums/p40/p40_wire2.jpg
Skyraider3D
01-15-2007, 9:56 AM
That's a P-40E with the fillet normally seen on the K. Here is the serial range
41-35874/36953 - Curtiss P-40E-1.My bad, I should've read the text! :)
http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/McMahan/3771.htm
Nice wires, Evan!
Compared to the rest of the plane, perhaps the chin intake could do with an extra segment or two (as it's a rather in-your-face part of the aircraft). But if this is subdivided twice, it should hold up in close-up renders nicely as it is.
Ronnie... thanks. For the moment I will leave it as is and see how it looks a little further down the track. I'm not sure how much detail I want to model into the chin intake as yet.
Wanted to get some idea's for a final render and am just playing with the camera and lighting here.... just a test. Thought I would post it.
kiwi123
01-16-2007, 9:05 AM
That looks amazing Evan, familiar angle as well :lol:
WOW!
Congratulation about the very nice WIRE, Evan!
Superb work.
:salute:
Galgot
01-16-2007, 9:43 AM
:p Me like a lot ! These small ribs on the ailerons are nice...
Skyraider3D
01-16-2007, 10:03 AM
Peculiar angle that. The wings and flaps look huge. What lens you used there? Maybe you need a slightly wider angle to bring out the nose a bit?
About the flaps on the P-40. I think I've rotated them much too far.. I'm not sure how far those things extend really, but I think I went a little overboard judging by my ref. Really though, the purpose of the render was to just play around and get a few idea's and also to relieve my boredom with modelling. I quickly created some morph's without taking too much notice of ref. as I just wanted to try a few quick renders. Not sure on the lens, can't check right now, I think around 50mm.
Thanks Galgot & Mirko... I think my PC is going to come to a grinding halt any minute now due to the poly count. :lol:
Cheers Kiwi... do you mean it's a well photographed angle ;)
Galgot
01-16-2007, 12:38 PM
Btw... Considering there are a P-40, a Ki-84, a F6F , a F4U and a A6M3 been done now, all of them top quality, there are some possibilities of great fight renders between all these same period fighters...;)
Skyraider3D
01-16-2007, 4:35 PM
Did you model the landing gear from scratch or pinched them from your old model? If from scratch, you did that quickly! :)
Btw... Considering there are a P-40, a Ki-84, a F6F , a F4U and a A6M3 been done now, all of them top quality, there are some possibilities of great fight renders between all these same period fighters...;)
I agree, it would be nice to see. Although my initial idea's are based on the African/Mediterranean theatre I'm sure I'll be doing a Pacific P-40 somewhere along the lines.
Ronnie, everything so far is modelled from scratch. I was fussing with the landing gear for 1 1/2 days. They still need some detail at the top where they extend into the housing, but I'll get back to them soon, I want to get the rudder and elevators finished first.
That's the bulk of the aircraft modelled now. Just a matter of going over it, adding the remaining details and tweaking a few area's.
Skyraider3D
01-18-2007, 11:55 PM
Lovely!
You've done this very fast mate, and the model looks spot on. Proof that factory drawings in the hands of an accomplished modeller are a powerful tool!
If only I had some for the Corsair... ;)
PS. I am currently reading the Bloody Shambles vol.2 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bloody-Shambles-Complete-Account-Defence/dp/0948817674/sr=8-2/qid=1169161229/ref=pd_ka_2/203-3854137-5874353?ie=UTF8&s=books) book by Brian Cull and others, and it has a description of a P-40B being repaired with P-40E wings, while defending the Phillipines. It was subsequently known as the "P-40 Something" :lol:
Anybody with a serious interest in the air war over SE Asia should have a look at these books. Marvellous research work and lots of quotes from pilots etc. makes it a very enjoyable read too.
JFandL
01-19-2007, 2:25 AM
Oh My!
Outstanding for sure,
kevjon
01-19-2007, 3:05 AM
Looks amazing !
LTDann
01-19-2007, 4:57 AM
Wonderful work I must say.
I just sent "P-40 in Action" to Squadron where it will await its turn for publication. There are just tons of markings you could put on this plane and not even have to do that much work.
For the D, E, Kittyhawk I and IA, you can do American, Brazilian, Turkish, Russian, South African, New Zealand, Australian, Canadian, Japanese aircraft. A small fillet at the tail and you have a late model E, early K. The possibilities are endless.
If I remember, the drawing package you have (I have it too) has the cowling for the P-40F and L models......youve got most of what you need to make all versions from D to N.
Have you ever seen a P-40 with a Klimov M-105 engine? Ochen Intersssney!!!
Rich
kiwi123
01-19-2007, 8:59 AM
Very nice mate, VERY nice ! Can't wait to see her textured !
Galgot
01-19-2007, 9:39 AM
P.E.R.F.E.C.T :)
Thanks Galgot, Kiwi, Kevjon and JFandL!
LTDann - Plans are firstly to do a few 3 Squadron and 112 squadron aircraft. I'd also like to convert it to a K model but I wont count my eggs just yet on that one :)
Skyraider3d - Wouldn't have attempted it again with out your drawings. Big thanks for those!
Have never heard of the P-40 with the Klimov engine before now. Did a quick image search. Very interesting indeed. Thanks for the info!
Quick update.
kevjon
01-30-2007, 8:32 AM
Looking really good, its getting there.
One thing I have noticed is your fuselage looks really square and hard edged on top....are you sure that is correct ? From wartime photos it appears more rounded.
Cheers Kevin. It does look too square, I see what you mean. I think the spec. might be making it look worse than it is though. Will have to revisit that section though. Thanks for picking that up!
kevjon
01-30-2007, 9:35 AM
Looks fine from this angle. Any interesting one to diagnose.
Skyraider3D
01-30-2007, 10:42 AM
I guess it's a bunch of edges getting too close to eachother, making a crease. Maybe a vert not properly welded or something?
Yep, I think a few of the edges/verts need a little tweaking, as you say Ronnie, maybe a few are a little close together hardening that area more than it should be. But it's only ever so slightly (and only about half way along) as I just double checked with all the cross sections. Thanks guys.
Very very nice looking model. Good job.
Chucrutes
02-05-2008, 1:26 AM
Hi Evan!
I'm modeling a P-40E too.
Your model is amazing!
I got some issues on the nose(air scoops). Can you post some low poly wireframes, please?
Thanks a lot
deltacharlie
02-05-2008, 6:15 AM
I'm late to the party, but I also agree that this looks great. I don't envy you UVing 'er, though! Always liked the P-40.
~DC
roshent
02-05-2008, 12:26 PM
I think it's looks great, glad you're still at it, was wondering what happend to this one. About that crease on the aft fuselage, I had the same thing on my Curtiss 75, a P40 is essentially a 75 with a in-line engine. I figured it was your lighting first, but judging from these last pictures I think the top edge of your rear window is a bit too high up on the fuselage. Although the cockpit hood is not in the same position, judging from the distance between the top of the fuselage window and the bottom of the top window on your hood it's a bit too big a distance on your model. The top edge of that fuselage window should be a bit more onto that crease in the fuselage. At least that's what I think...
The fuselage also widens on that point, just a little bit, where as I think yours is getting narrow.
Apart from that, it's still a great piece of modelling mate !!
Mmmmm... has it been that long:rolleyes:
Hmm, has it? It seems as if it was yesterday. ;)
Good to see this one come back, it is going to be another stunner when it is done. Like your bumps and details around cockpit and elevator control mechanism. Camo looks a bit pale but it may be because of lighting.
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.