Vertigo

[kiwi123]

http://kiwi123.military-meshes.com/spit/vertigo2_1000.jpg

Spitfires of 64 SQN coming down in a dive to attack the emil escort.

[primer]

Wow, just wow, beautifull!

Do you have a larger render of this, would love it as a wallpaper

[peter]

Congratulations Wiek!!!!!! Beautiful image. I love it!!!!!!!!!!:)

[roshent]

Love the image, only nitpick I have is that I'm not sure if the bombers are flying too low. If this is BoB, then shouldn't they be a bit higher ?

Not withstanding that, great composition and render !!

[Mirko]

Superb ! Great sense of action.:salute:

[Karras]

wooooww !!!! Fantastic , :eek:

I want this background, where you catch it ? If is possible :)

[Buelliful]

Very nice work Wiek, the Spitfires have a nice fluid motion to them which would carry them through the frame beautifully.

I think the 109's look good in that form too, afterall they would be stuck to the bomber formation until such times as an attack began.:salute:

Alan.

[Evan]

Looks great Kiwi!

IMO though I think one of the Spit's should be larger in the frame. I am getting a bit lost in the composition as there are many "smaller" aircraft flying.

[krazycolin]

uh... I don't like it. (i can hear the wails!!!).... it feels... composed... The trails are overlaid onto the clouds and give a "highlighted" feel to them... looks wierd.... The plane in the lower right hand corner has something very strange about it... I dunno... looks messed up... In fact.. all of the big planes feel that way... Like somehow the lighting is off... Now i know that in "real life" pics, things can look unreal, but this just feels not so nice... It's not even close to your other work imho.... Add to that that sense of space (up and down vis a vis the ground) is totally off... (at least... for me...)

sorry mate.... kill me later...

so ... nope... not for moi...

[kiwi123]

Thanks everyone for your comments ! Time to try the new multiquote buttons :lol:

Do you have a larger render of this, would love it as a wallpaper

I have a bigger one, yes (the original is approximately 7000 pixels wide), but no wallpaper yet, it's not the right aspect ration to fill the screen. I'll have to do a bit of work, and then I might as well do some more. Don't have the time for that just now because of the exhibition.

I want this background, where you catch it ? If is possible :)

It is a photograph I took myself, I would like to keep this one unique for my own work as I will by trying to sell prints later.

IMO though I think one of the Spit's should be larger in the frame. I am getting a bit lost in the composition as there are many "smaller" aircraft flying.

I had a main spitfire in there at first, but it took away the feeling of depth that should go with this image, so took it out again. If you want I can send it to you.

uh... I don't like it. (i can hear the wails!!!).... it feels... composed... The trails are overlaid onto the clouds and give a "highlighted" feel to them... looks wierd.... The plane in the lower right hand corner has something very strange about it... I dunno... looks messed up... In fact.. all of the big planes feel that way... Like somehow the lighting is off... Now i know that in "real life" pics, things can look unreal, but this just feels not so nice... It's not even close to your other work imho.... Add to that that sense of space (up and down vis a vis the ground) is totally off... (at least... for me...)

sorry mate.... kill me later...

so ... nope... not for moi...

Thanks for your honest opinion Colin ! Obviously something like this, which is by no means a standard way of depicting an aerial scene, shall have people who do not "get" it. But then again, if you always stick to what is familiar or expected, you'll never get something new and unique.
Maybe I'll look at it differently a week from now, but after a very intense couple of days working on it, I've seen the composition grow from what it was to what it is now, and I do like it myself (if I didn't, it wouldn't be here on this forum).

Also I would like to thank the people who have given their valuable opinions before I posted, Ben, Roman, Alan and Ronnie, thanks for your input !

:D

Also another thing I'd like to add....this is one of those renders that really works best to see as big as possible so you can absorb the feeling of it. Shame you can't show images fullscreen like this....

[digiartist]

Very original composition Wiek! I really like this one, you've captured the scale of the battle of Britain perfectly!

[peter]

I have one question: Why isn't "Vertigo" on the header yet? How long will we wait for the header this time:)
Wiek, could You send me the first version of this? I would love to see it:)

[kiwi123]

Sure, just send me an email at: wiek at luijken dot com and I'll reply with some images :)

[Skyraider3D]

Very nice image, but it would work better as an animation than as a still, I think. It somehow begs for a main subject, which isn't there. Pretty much what Evan and Colin said.

That said, it's better than the original one, but I guess making the main subject bigger in that one rather than removing it altogether would have worked better. Personal taste, I guess :)

Looking at it again... if you make the left-bottom Spitfire about twice as big and move it to the left bottom "1/3" I think it would be a major improvement.

[kevjon]

Nice one Kiwi. There is a lot to absorb in this image and would look great at full size.

If you were the sixth Spitfire in line...this is how the BoB might of appeared.

[Spinner]

... if you make the left-bottom Spitfire about twice as big and move it to the left bottom "1/3" I think it would be a major improvement.

Yes,
I don't have to have a focuss aircraft. The squad is the subject. I would like the balance a larger left lower spit would give, though.

Might email you wiek? I'd like to see it full screen.
It reminds me of art by WW2 vets I've seen at the Aust War Memorial (more history center, museum, than monument).
I find a lot of your stuff grows on me, the more I look at it.
This one has the participants' view combined with a distancing feeling, interesting composition.

[kiwi123]

Skyraider: I might size the bottom left on up a tad, but not twice the size. Need to rerender the closest two spits anyway.

Kevin: Thanks, you get the exact idea I had in mind !

Spinner: I can't send you the fullres one, what res were you looking for ? Glad to hear that my stuff grows on you !

[Hitori Kyo]

hey kiwi great image, may i ask how you did the clouds?

- Hitori kyo

[kiwi123]

Hi Hitori,

The clouds are part of the same photograph as the ground. Just all one shot.

Wiek

[jkbon]

I agree with some of the others, you need to have a bigger plane to attrack the glance.

Especially if you want to sell it.

At 2/3 meters, I dont think you can see something else but the background, it's my opinion.

Maybe a view from the cockpit, the view that the pilot has , ... just an idea.

[kiwi123]

If I make that spitfire bigger, will you buy a print ?

[Danoku]

I would... take my opinion with the grain of salt with which its offered, but I have always felt that capturing the merge before a furball might be the hardest thing to get across in a piece of art. Even in the much smaller scale DACT training I rode on and photographed I was always stymied by the thought of trying to capture that moment artistically, then multiplying the elements by an order of magnatitude, shudder. Makes my brain hurt. My admiration for trying, and probably a check if you decide to go that way.

[Nils]

Jeezeez, I often wondered how it must have been, back then, now I know.
Must have been a sickening feeling diving into ones faith like that, and not know the outcome, and they were just kids .......
Thanks Wiek

[Zorin]

Make it bigger, maybe like looking over his shoulder with the upper wing surface as the frame for the pic.

[kiwi123]

Ok, I updated the pic, I like this better. That's the way it's gonna stay by the way.

[Danoku]

Shack, were do I get a print!!!!

[kiwi123]

Hehehe, you should be able to buy a print of this image as well as others within a month from now. ;)
Thanks for the vote of confidence :)

[Spinner]

That really works for me.

[jkbon]

I prefer buy your update that the previous version :p

[Evan]

Looks much better now Kiwi!

[giant551]

I like the scene it looks fab !!! But please forgive me for this but there is just something that bothers me about the spit in the bottom left corner. I can't qiute put my finger on it, I don't think the lighting matches the rest of the scene on that part of the picture. I think its the underside of the aircraft it just looks a little GI generated and a little dull ???

sorry for my crit Wiek i feel guilty picking at such a lovely piece of work i hope you don't mind my opinion.

[Skyraider3D]

Yup, that's a massive improvement! You look down the barrels of that bigger Spitfire right into the action. Improved lighting is great too!
The more subtle wingtip voritces are an improvement as well.

[peter]

I think the updated image looks great. Cogratulations Wiek. Wish I see this in original size:)

[kevjon]

I liked the first one but I think the changes you've made has improved it more.

[Nils]

Just a small comment, why didn't the Spits carry underwing roundels?
-nils-

[Skyraider3D]

These were only added after the Battle of Britain. Why? I don't know :)

A lot of Spits and Hurris had one black wing as well at that time (and AAA gunners were told not to shoot at "half" planes), but I haven't a clue about 64 Sqn...

[kiwi123]

64 sqn didn't have that. Also I thought the black and white wing was early BoB ?

[Skyraider3D]

Also I thought the black and white wing was early BoB ?Me too, but I'm hardly an expert on BoB matters I'm afraid...

[Buelliful]

Me too, but I'm hardly an expert on BoB matters I'm afraid...

I don't profess to be an expert on the subject either so I have had a look in some of my books.

In my copy of the Sovereign Series "Spitfire" by Stewart Wilson it has a full colour profile of a 66SQN Spitfire 1A dated Sept 1940 which has underwing roundels. It also has a B/W photo of a Spitfire II (P8078) with underwing roundels. (This batch being made sometime between June 1940 and July 1941.

For more conclusive images I found in Osprey's Aircraft of the Aces 12 several images of spits dated from August 1938 (19 Sqn Duxford), 2nd June 1940 over Dunkirk(72 Sqn) and 19 Sqn again (Duxford) in 1940 with underwing roundels.

So, depending on what squadron it was they MIGHT well have had roundels...:salute:

Hope this helps some.

[Skyraider3D]

Colour profiles don't mean a thing, I'm afraid. Most artists add roundels to BoB fighters in error, and so do profile artists...

I just did some digging... apparently the silver/black wing was only used for a short time from until June/July 1940, when all-sky undersurfaces became standard. From mid-August onwards the roundels were re-introduced.

There were many more changes. For instance early in the war Spitfires had silver-black undersides withouth roundels, blue-red fuselage roundel, no fin flash and no serial! I.e. quite a different appearance!

Here's a useful site on this subject:
http://www.europeanaf.org/forum/showthread.php?p=28093
You'll notice a lot of dates for official paint orders, which are a much better guide than profile drawings.

Photographs of course are the ultimate resource, but trying to find an accurately dated photograph is very hard. Usually it works the other way around, and a date is based on the paint scheme.

Anyway, have a read through that site I linked... shedloads of info to absorb, if you ever plan do to an early Spitfire! What a minefield! :)

[Buelliful]

I should clarify, the last three Spitfires I mentioned ARE dated photographs.

P.S. Cheers for the link Ronnie.