View Full Version : Yakovlev Yak-23
Thank God Military.meshes is back!
HereŽs few wip shots of my polymodelling learning project. I would be really happy if someone has reference about the jetpipe/wing root area, cockpit and also landing gear. It seems that theres at least two different kind of canopy and front landing gear versions.
Any feedback about the general shapes would also be helpful!
Skyraider3D
11-08-2006, 9:57 AM
Fantastic subject!!!
You may want to consider getting this booklet:
http://www.hlj.com/product/KAG11025
http://kagero.pl/product_info.php?cPath=38_40&products_id=639&language=en
Here's some useful pics for you:
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=Yakovlev%20Yak-23&distinct_entry=true
There used to be two walkaround links for the Yak-23 online, but both have vanished. Try thicking them in the Way Back Machine on www.archive.org
http://aviation.pol.pl/museums/mwp_warszawa.htm
http://www.duffeyk.freeserve.co.uk/yak-23.htm
At least the first one seems to be working OK.
The way you have the exhaust isn't far off, but the hole should be round. You'll need to hollow out the bottom a bit to achive this.
What you can also do is drop PCC DTK a PM. He lives in Bucharest and they have a Yak-23 in a museum there. Maybe he has some pics of it. I have one or two pics of it myself, but they won't be of much use.
Thanks Skyraider. This really is interesting aircraft. And you can say from the looks of it that its nice to fly. Very balanced proportions.
I did order that booklet. I wanna make this properly. I got a pic of plastic model (I know its not 100% sure reference) and yes, it show that jetpipe is more rounded.
kevjon
11-23-2006, 10:37 PM
Few wobbles in your mesh here and there but nice start and a subject I haven't seen in 3D before. Be really interested to see this one progress further.
Skyraider3D
12-10-2006, 11:16 AM
MrKo, check this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KAGERO-YAK-23-TOPSHOTS_W0QQitemZ290031074851QQihZ019QQcategoryZ4 5127QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
They have a "best offer" which means you might be able to get this one really cheap! :)
Thanks for the tip Skyraider. I made offer. I did actually order one while ago, but it apparently takes long time to get here.
HereŽs few shots more. I made few mistakes and its seems I have to start it over again or at least clean the mesh a bit. However this has been more than better practice. I aim to make this reasonable good, just to learn about polys and texturing.
I think I get long step forwards when that book arrives.
Little update. This is real lunch break job, so be patient.
Skyraider3D
01-08-2007, 9:39 AM
Nice going.
This is real lunch break job, so be patient.I work faster in my lunchbreaks than at home! :lol:
Yep, the work motivation is some how much higher in lunchbreaks;)
Can someone give me a hint, if theres major mistakes. I would appreciate that a lot!
Skyraider3D
01-08-2007, 2:54 PM
The tip tank blend and the canopy frame look a bit "blobby" but otherwise it looks good, as far as I can tell. Perhaps do a few E-Light (http://home.wanadoo.nl/r.j.o/skyraider/e-light.htm) renders, or something similar, so we can see the shape a bit better.
You are absolutely right SD. Tip tank and canopy has both some errors. I just tried to sneak unnoticed. This e-light system is great. Thanks! HereŽs few shots. Landing gear is of course for reference. Its gonna get better. IŽll continue fixing errors soon.
Skyraider3D
01-09-2007, 8:57 AM
Nice!
The bottom of the air intake looks a bit flat, but otherwise good going. I like the landing gear.
Noob question...I am in trouble with sliding canopy and landing gear doors. Should I start shaping them in low poly or collapse the mesh and cut detail parts in high poly? I made ailerons, flaps and elevator already, but that wasnt a problem because the straight shapes. What do you reckon?
Skyraider3D
01-11-2007, 10:06 AM
I usually cut them out after collapsing, as I don't take any joy in endlessly tweaking the low-poly mesh to maintain smooth curvature. It'll save you polys too.
kevjon
01-11-2007, 11:36 AM
I do the same as skyraider. Not to save poly but because it gives the crispest cleanest result.
I tried to cut/shapemerge in high poly and it did work alright. So big thanks for the tip!:D I guess I still do everything I can in low poly, then pray and collapse the mesh. That canopy area is gonna be difficult because the frame shape. WeŽll see.
kevjon
01-11-2007, 9:16 PM
For cutting out of the high poly mesh I always draw a spline to act as my cutting guide and then use the cut tool under edge mode to cut the mesh. This way there is virtually no cleanup of stray vertices which occurs with shapemerge and you control things better.
Skyraider3D
01-11-2007, 9:35 PM
I've actually been using Booleans a lot lately for this sorta thing. Booleans are not too bad as long as you keep your cutting object basic. Slice is also a nice tool for quick surgery.
When cutting. always be careful to double check if your cut went right. It has a tendency to snap to things other than intended, especially in a dense mesh. It's happened more than once that I cut something, extruded and found a 'wrinkle' :)
Few quick renders. I am totally petrified with that wing root. No idea how to fix that in high poly? Chainsaw?
Little update. Oh boy! Did I struggle with the lines? He&% yes and somehow I lost the bottom side of the fuselage lines in the process too. So what else I need? Weathering, some kind of aluminium material setup and little bump.
Skyraider3D
03-07-2007, 2:24 PM
Panel lines are so much fun :)
Yep, like dental care:lol:
Thank you, this is my first complete poly model and it really takes time to find those tiny little buttons from Max. Good but time consuming experience so far. Maybe after next summer I am in composition stage...;)
More dental care. ThereŽs just diffuse map. I guess I dont need bump map at all? Cockpit area and thousand other little things still missing. I also need to do some low reflectable aluminium material setup and start doing test renders.
Skyraider3D
03-08-2007, 3:18 PM
The bumpmap will really prove its value once you have reflections going on.
Diffusemap looks good, though perhaps darken the gery a little bit or it will look glossy white once you have reflections.
Wow, Mirko! Polish markings! THX!
Yep, its Polish. I´ve got best reference from Polish Yak, so I did that. If I undestood correct Yak 23 was widely used in PAF and I like the different kind of insignia of PAF. Do u mrys happen to have any interesting history/stories of any specific Yak? I would like to do some picture with some kind of history in it. My little brother just came from a snowboarding trip from Poland. He liked it.
Very good work. But did you made that without crossections (as shown in you setup) ? I cant work without them. They give you a lot more precision.
http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/yak23-2.html
Yep, its Polish. I´ve got best reference from Polish Yak, so I did that. If I undestood correct Yak 23 was widely used in PAF and I like the different kind of insignia of PAF. Do u mrys happen to have any interesting history/stories of any specific Yak? I would like to do some picture with some kind of history in it. My little brother just came from a snowboarding trip from Poland. He liked it.
Hi
Yaks-23 was used by PAF for very short time: since 1951 until 1956. There was replacement for piston engined Yak-9P and others Yak's. "23" was used in limited numbers in first line squadrons and there was a plan to buy licence and produce this fighter in PZL Mielec factory as G-3. But there was a time, when MiG 15 was built - much better and modern, so government changed plans and in Mielec start works for prepare production line for MiG-15/Lim-1. It is also the reason, why Yak 23 was removed from squadrons so fast.
Pilots for Yak 23 was trained on Yak-17W - two sitter version of earlier one Yak-17. Training was two months long. In Cracow's Museum existed the One survived Yak-17W - Russians tried to buy it for Monino (they have not one Yak17W), but was refused.
Probably one of better known names of pilot flying on Yak-23 was W. Hermaszewski, brother of polish first astronaut Miroslav Hermaszewski.
For the first time polish Yak-23 was showed public 26.08.1951 on Aviation's Day Fest in Okecie (Warsaw).
After recalling from first line duty many of Yak-23 was used in Pilot's Schools as training machines and also for mechanics training. Some of planes were also used as gift for civil aviation organisations (for exhibition's purposes only). Two Yak's 23 was used by Aviation's Institute as experimantal machines with civil registrations: SP-GLK and SP-GLL. 21.09.1957 on one of this machines pilot Andrzey Ablamovitch beat two worlds records: it climb up on 3000 m altitude in 119 seconds and on 6000 m on 197 seconds (climb speed 25,2 m/s and 30,5 m/s). Record plane was decased in 1963.
In Cracow's Museum of Aviation survived Yak 23 wit "16" code number, in Warsaw's Museum of Polish Army next one with "23" code number.
And thats all:D
Very good work. But did you made that without crossections (as shown in you setup) ? I cant work without them. They give you a lot more precision.
Not always. In my draftsman and drawings collectors careere I found only very few drawings with crossections matching perfect with side and top view. For me top and side view are the most important for keep good looking shape. Of course crossections are necessary, but in cases, when shape of crsossection is different then it should be after analising side/top shapes I always believe my intuition and photographical sources and correct crossections. Good photo can tell you more about shape then crossections.
Big thanks mrys. Its always interesting to know more about the subject. Somehow I like the Yak 23 simple design. It doesnt look very menacing but it looks good aeroplane, like the climbing record proofs. I might do the SP-GLK also, because the record. I´ve got few pictures of it, but in low quality.
Macoy I did use a few set of different crossections (airwar.ru) but after few hours of modeling, it was clear that the sections were not accurate. I made the whole fuselage first. Then I compared it to the pictures of real Yak and proceeded to alter it as long as it started to be close the real one. There´s just one very little differency to my eye still left. But I am not gonna tell it to anyone!;)
Try this link: http://aviation.pol.pl/galselect.php?p=0&ui=133&ti=375&mi=52&quer=1=1&selectby=fotoID%20DESC&wpis=
There are some photos of survived Yaks-23. I'll try to find good photo of SP-GLK for you:D
Thanks I really would appreciate that. I´ve spend hours searching photos from internet. Then I did order Kagero topshots, thats very good for reference, even the picture quality is not perfect.
Ok, I am a bit lost here. I have a hdri lighting scene with skylight and directional spot. I also made the aluminium look following the obstacle courses tips, but I cant get the reflection blurred and the material doesnt look very real. Material is simple with high specular level and falloff map with raytrace as a reflection. Also that canopy plexiglass makes wierd things, but I think I solved that problem.
Should I start proceeding from a background photo and try to find some solution for the lighting and material?
Skyraider3D
03-15-2007, 3:39 PM
Starting to look real nice there, mate.
Are you using the scanline renderer? If so, you need to enable the Global Antialiaser in the Global Raytracer Settings. Once you've done that, in your material the option to blur reflections will become available (under Raytracer Controls, assuming you're using the Raytracer material).
Thanks. Yes its scanline. IŽll try that raytrace and antialiase and see what goes wrong after that;)
Scanline with blurred reflections. No specular yet.
Its better but what a heck happened to my beautiful canopy? Its double modelled with basic raytrace material. Tweking the IOR doesnt do anything.
Galgot
03-23-2007, 12:38 PM
I like that plane... The design reminds some planes in Blake and Mortimer cartoon :-) Was it painted (silver or light grey) or left natural metal ?
very nice !
scrimski
03-23-2007, 1:10 PM
Scanline with blurred reflections. No specular yet.
Its better but what a heck happened to my beautiful canopy? Its double modelled with basic raytrace material. Tweking the IOR doesnt do anything.
Looks like the raytrace blur. Did you applied that in the general settings or only for the aluminium material?
Was it painted (silver or light grey) or left natural metal ?
Polish Yaks-23 (and also MiG-15, -17, -19, -21, Su-7, Su-20) was painted matt silver.
Skyraider3D
03-23-2007, 3:01 PM
Its better but what a heck happened to my beautiful canopy? Its double modelled with basic raytrace material. Tweking the IOR doesnt do anything.Just to test... put a default Raytrace material on there and set the reflection to Fresnel. Does it still look like that?
Galgot: Jep, Yak-23 is like a puppy of real fighter jet;)
scrimski: I checked that global antialiasing off from the plexiglass material, its interesting to see how it affects.
Skydiver: IŽll try that material setup next.
Mrys: Thanks, I didnt realize that. I thought that the color comes from oxidized aluminium. I think I am gonna struggle long to get reasonable metal look. I thought that modelling is the difficult part but no, no...the work starts after that.:eek:
Better. No specular map. IŽve got maps done, but it takes years to render. Canopy area is under work.
Skyraider3D
03-27-2007, 8:38 AM
Nice going!
I think you need to darken your base diffuse colour, as it still looks glossy white.
It's very nice, MrKo ! Good work.
:salute:
cool work but the big angle camera deformed the airplane a lot.
I´ll check that diffuse color. Angle is horrible, definitely not the best angle for this aircraft. I´ve got one idea for the composition and I think it will end up better.
giant551
03-27-2007, 3:35 PM
hey thats starting to shape up mate:D nice one and you are so right about the texturing being the hard part:)
Thank u giant551. I am doing fine progress here...I managed to invent material that takes 3 days to render, is partly transparent and looks like crap. So I need to start from scratch again with the material. S#€t! Anyway, heres one idea for composition. Do we have something here?
Skyraider3D
04-10-2007, 11:06 AM
Definitely bring the main plane closer. Otherwise a nice angle.
If you're starting a new material, use a Raytrace material. Then at least the reflection setup will be fairly painless. The rest pretty much behaves as normal.
kevjon
04-10-2007, 11:26 AM
I managed to invent material that takes 3 days to render, is partly transparent and looks like crap.Ha ha, I can really relate to that and is good to see your sticking at it.
If you're trying to create an aluminium material for the aircraft there is some discussion about that which I've put in the 3D aircraft tips thread in the obstacle course. Aluminium (like all metals) work best with a raytrace material or Mental Ray materials.
I think the compostion looks great and once you get the materials sorted it should look really good.
Hey fellas. IŽve got a sample with reasonable mr rendering time. Only skylight and two directional. IŽll do later tests with the e-light. Any pointers for the metal material? Its raytrace, 270 specular, 75 glossiness and low falloff reflection.
kevjon
04-11-2007, 10:15 AM
Still looks like glossy white paint rather than aluminium.
Try sort out the the aluminium material on Max's teapot before trying to do it on the aircraft.
I've so found that a raytrace material, blinn type, spec 190, glossiness 10, diffuse color (rgb 104,114, 135), fresnel falloff in the reflection map. Adjust the color of the front material in the falloff to a grey for more reflection (I use rgb 25) for this. You may need to adjust some of these settings to suit your light setup.
If you want to blur your reflections which you obviously will for realism sake you will need to use the global ray antialiser settings in the raytracer controls of the render dialog box. This is only available when using the scanline renderer.
For blurred reflections using the Mental Ray render you will have to create a MR material with Metal Lume included in the shader so that you can blur the reflections. Best to go to Jeff Pattons (http://jeffpatton.net/Max6/index.html) website and download some of his metal materials to see how he created them.
Thanks a punch kevjon! I´ll dig in to the material setup. Last time I did so, I came out nearly dead. Now I got at least a map;)
Ok, I possible went too high on reflection, but its progressing. Thanks kevjon! How about the lighting, should I have sun glare on top of the fuselage? Anything else?
kevjon
04-16-2007, 11:26 AM
Not sure if you've created a specular map but if you haven't that would help it along. I think the grey of your textures may need to be darker as the aluminium is still looking a bit pale and whiteish. It certainly improving with each post though.
I think a bit of glow could help. Cobra posted a small tutorial somewhere here on MM on how you might achieve that effect using Mental Ray.
Skyraider3D
04-16-2007, 12:15 PM
Your plane is transparent again. I think your scene is lacking an inverted skydome to reflect and the raytracer is simply grabbing your background image now. You need an environment to reflect. Just invert the normals on a sphere and map a cloud/sky tiling texture onto it.
Also I still think you need to darken your diffuse channel, as it still appears white.
Other than that, I think you're getting pretty close. Stick in an envorinment to reflect (visible to reflections only) and you will get a better idea of what it really looks like.
I like it more and more, but about your natural metal colour, I think that it has to much reflections. Look at bottom surface of wing - it looks like mirror. Also horizontal stabiliser is mirrored in vertical to much. I think, that reflection falloff should be stronger.:\
In fact silver paint, using by PAF was almost noreflectible. It should looks like this rather:
http://images21.fotosik.pl/179/c9719536557dc2d7.jpg (http://www.fotosik.pl)
But like your composition and matching with background.:D
Thanks for the feedback and tips. I proceed to correct things. I lost my self-control with the reflection. Who ever chose the PAF colors mid 1900 should reconsider it!;) I´ve got specular, diff, bump and reflection map, so I got things to play with. I reckon I´ll go through that mm tutorial. I´ve seen it before but I skipped it to keep things simple. How wrong I was.
Few posts above I've promised to find anything about Yaks-23 belonged to Aviation Institute (IL) and flying with registration SP-GLK and SP-GLL. I wrote to... Aviation Institute:D and get some info from. Part of it (photographs and colour side views I'll send MrKo by e-mail (can't present them public, cause of authors rights:cry:, but U can fin it there: http://www.muzeumlotnictwa.pl/indexen.php?mod=show_galery&idg=21 :D),
but some informations are interesting, I think, also for all here.
So here are fist of notices by Mr. T. J. Korsak, chief of publications department of Aviation Institute.
1. "mirrored" polish insignia: checker is showed as contemporary - in Yak-23 era red and white squares was in reverse
2. lack of exhaust - it should protrude few centimeters aft from fuselage. It was black. Bottom surfaces just aft of exhaust was made from steel plates (not aluminium) and was more shiny then rest of fuselage (not painted probably)
3. cockpit canopy was higher - almost like in Mustang - not "only for head "- as in rests of Yaks). Survived, exhibition examples in most cases have no oryginal glass in canopies (which was pressed out from organic glass flat panels) but "ersatz" for keep the rain out:lol:
4. front part of fuselage until cockpit had almost circular crossection.
Hope it is helpful info.
Thank you for this information mrys. You are very helpful, which means that my tweaking list is now longer than A4:)
IŽve already had confusing times with the points u brought up. I thought that there was at least two different versions of yak-23, because the different kind of canopies, engine outlet and panels. I asked these question at first post of this thread. Now I got the answers!
1. I chose the wrong one here. I related to some Polish site and thought that this way its right.
2. Check attached pic. This is why I chose not to but engine exhaust, even some of the pics shows it. Even the panels are way different in some of the yaks. I dont know is it because theres different versions or because of handcrafting in that area? That exhaust protection is also not so visible or missing in the pics I have.
3. Theres also two different kind of canopies shown on the pictures. I guess the bulgy one is the right one. I modelled my one closer the flat than bulgy one. IŽll see can I fix this with reasonable work.
4. I checked this and on my model its more wide oval than circular. Judging by eye its not far from the real one.
Holy cow. I need to start working.
I have to correct info about how Yaks 23 was painted.
All planes had skinning made from dural metal plated by thin, nonpolished aluminium plates. All was covered by transparent "butyl" varnish (not glossy, not matt - satin). Mr. Korsak said: "it looked as nonpolished aluminium pot" Only steel part under fuselage after the exhaust was polished!
After few weeks all started to be less shiny then at the beginning. After few months varnish was losing its transparencies and with companion of dust atarted to be almost gray. Planes was very precisely assembled, so there was no visible "bumps" on cover panels.
Thanks again. IŽll revert back to the non-reflective version, even I like the shiny one so much:cry: It brings the shapes and details up. Good thing, is that the render times are more sane without reflections.
Galgot
04-20-2007, 9:21 AM
I have to correct info about how Yaks 23 was painted.
All planes had skinning made from dural metal plated by thin, nonpolished aluminium plates. All was covered by transparent "butyl" varnish (not glossy, not matt - satin). Mr. Korsak said: "it looked as nonpolished aluminium pot" Only steel part under fuselage after the exhaust was polished!
After few weeks all started to be less shiny then at the beginning. After few months varnish was losing its transparencies and with companion of dust atarted to be almost gray. Planes was very precisely assembled, so there was no visible "bumps" on cover panels.
Hi Mrys, interesting infos. Please, does that apply to all Polish planes of the warsaw Pact period ? And also was that semi-matt varnish applied in Poland, or was the planes coming from Russia with it ?
MrKo - It's getting better and better :) the more i see your renders , the more i like that plane.
giant551
04-20-2007, 12:14 PM
agreed you can definately see an improvement every post:D
Thanks for the support. Now u are raising the threshold to publish new renders. Next one must be perfect. Otherwise I am dead:p
Please, does that apply to all Polish planes of the warsaw Pact period ? And also was that semi-matt varnish applied in Poland, or was the planes coming from Russia with it ?
This type of cammo was applied for all polish jets after Yak-23 (MiG-15, MiG-17, MiG-19, MiG-21, Su-7) but I'am not sure, if in every plane. On some photographs are visible planes with panels in different shades of gray/silver. I think, that it was depend on how accurate panels was polished and from what kind of dural/alum/steel was made. Probably only on Yak-23 and part of MiG-15/17s was dural panels plated by aluminium. So level of reflection are also different for unique panel. But varnish was always used! Also on most machines comming from USSR.
In my opinion, not confirmed by anyone, some planes was polished in fighter's units or repair stations, for get better flight speed. On some photos reflections are very visible. But, as I said it is only muy opinion.
I was studying some machines i Cracow's museum, and must say, that on most MiGs-21 was uniform colour of paint - so probably it was "old" varnish or gray/silver paint. On MiG-19 and some MiGs-21 I found rather varnished natural nonpolished metal .
Galgot
04-20-2007, 7:49 PM
Thanks for these infos mrys :)
MrKo - Don't hurry mate , 3d is like good cooking, take your time...:D
In my colection I found this photos of LIM-1 (polish licence built MiG-15).
First show panels in different shades of grey/silver:
http://images20.fotosik.pl/247/a2c43912c864289b.jpg (www.fotosik.pl)
Second, taken in Cracow's Museum shows uniform paint:
http://images21.fotosik.pl/193/564ed218836e6e4a.jpg (www.fotosik.pl)
Galgot
04-21-2007, 9:34 AM
I see, so there can be aircraft of the period that have panels shade and spec variations... I prefer that , looks better :) But it's more work... Was wondering cause most nat.metal polish planes picts shows them so uniform coloured and mat. But then most are from museum or preserved planes, so old varnish or paint.
Very interesting. I´ll try some more specular changes to the panels. Just to alter the panels little bit.
Minor update. Original bubble canopy, engine exhaust, flipped insignia, sun glare and specmap variations. Its non-reflective. Some how theres no metallic feeling left any more. I think I try to add very tiny little bit of blurred reflection. I just cant resist:lol:
Skyraider3D
04-25-2007, 5:46 PM
That looks much better, but you still need to make an environment for your aircraft, as it's still transparent. Note how the cloud on the left-bottom of the image is visible through the rear fuselage (but blurred). You can also see the horizon through the right wing. You won't get a proper feel for the materials until they have an environment to reflect.
I had few tests with hemisphere environment, but with my light setup it turned too dark. I dont know how to light up the environment without making the aircraft too white. I think its just try and learn here. Thanks for the pointers again.
giant551
04-26-2007, 8:24 AM
hey Mrko are you using mentalray ?? because i use a similar set up with XSI mentalray and i can adjust the intensity of the environment sphere by adjusting th HSV value of the sphere's material ?? You can also do by lowering the finalgather intensity as well. max should have a similar set up ???
Skyraider3D
04-26-2007, 8:38 AM
I had few tests with hemisphere environment, but with my light setup it turned too dark. I dont know how to light up the environment without making the aircraft too white. I think its just try and learn here. Thanks for the pointers again.
You need to go into the object's properties (right-click > Properties) and turn off Visible To Camera and Cast Shadows and Receive Shadows. Then it basically ignores the skydome completely, except for reflections. Don't forget to make it 100% self illuminant.
Cheers, I´ll follow the tips and see how I can make simple things complicated again;)
Skyraider3D
04-26-2007, 10:22 PM
It took me five years before I dared touching raytraced materials. But I couldn't live without them now! Wait till you want to do raytraced refractions... now they are a pain!
What kind of sick mind invented the 3d programs anyway?We would be happier running in woods and doing cave paintings. No miserable spec maps or raytrace materials to worry about.;)
Few fast filters to the old render. Hope I find some time soon to proceed with the reflection and lighting.
krazycolin
06-11-2007, 3:14 PM
hey now, this is looking pretty darned good... nice bump maps!!!
I like composition and light, but planes seem to be a little to "white". But you are on the good way to make this image beautiful!:D
Mirko
06-11-2007, 10:29 PM
Nice composition, MrKo. I agree with mrys for the color of the planes.
:salute:
kevjon
06-11-2007, 11:48 PM
This has come up really well MrKo, good compostion and nicely integrated into the backdrop. The detail on your aircraft is showing up quite well on this render too.
In addition to the whitish paint, shadows could be sharper and a little darker as it is being hit by direct sunlight above the clouds.
Really good work on it.
Thanks all for your kind words. I´ll try to implement the tips to the next version. I am already tired with this composition. So I might do different angle ones for fun.
Few renders just for fun. One post-processed and two quick edited. This is my first poly model so now its better to move on to new challenges. IŽve got some material for il-28 and hundred other interesting aircrafts. Its hard to choose.:)
Skyraider3D
06-27-2007, 3:25 PM
From the look of things you still haven't made an environment (= inverted sphere with sky texture, 100% self-illuminating, invisible to camera but visible to reflections). The reflections don't work properly now and make the planes look transparent-ish (largely hidden by the generous amount of blur). And of course in the white-background image reflection is lost completely.
kevjon
06-28-2007, 4:38 AM
Nice work for your first poly model and some good renders have come from it. In addition to skyraiders suggestions I'd also tone down the red a bit as it looks a little bright.
You are right Skyraider. Theres no environment. I just couldnt make it work properly with the lights. I might have to change to e-light system. I´ll do that when ever I have enough time to do it.
I did those blurred reflections with 100% raytrace reflection which I blurred in PS. That was way faster than proper blurred reflections in MAX. I could do the environment and then render high reflective version and glue it to the orginal image in PS. That could fix the problem with the transparent look. Hmm.
kevjon
06-28-2007, 12:07 PM
The problem with blurring reflections in PS is that where the aircraft reflects part of itself that will still be really sharp. eg a wing reflecting into the fuselage.
Skyraider3D
06-28-2007, 12:26 PM
I just couldnt make it work properly with the lights.Hmmm odd. Can you explain what went wrong? Basically you need to do right-click, properties and uncheck Visible To Camera and Cast and Receive Shadows. That's pretty much it, it shouldn't affect the lights in any way.
The problem with blurring reflections in PS is that where the aircraft reflects part of itself that will still be really sharp. eg a wing reflecting into the fuselage.
That's right. The only way to make accurate blurred reflections in PS would be to render reflected z-depth on the fuselage and use it as a depth map on lens blur filter. But as far as I know you can't render reflected z depth, so ...
But this way is still better than waiting for default renderer to come up with something. It is just ridiculously slow with more advanced raytrace effects.
Do you have Mental Ray available in your version of max? It should handle reflections better.
Skyraider3D
06-28-2007, 4:51 PM
It should handle reflections better.And almost everything else worse :lol:
But yea, MR is worthy more testing/investigation/experimenting/frustrations, I suppose :) Apparently that has improved in MAX 9 as well.
And almost everything else worse :lol:
Well it should work fine when you set up those million options :lol:
But I agree with you it is very frustrating trying to learn Mental ray. Though it should be relatively easy just to get reflections layer from it. Provided that MrKo has newer version of max.
An old combo of max5 and brazil1 still works best for me. :)
Back again. Now I got hold on the inverted sphere environment at least thats what I think. HereŽs test.
kevjon
08-14-2007, 12:51 PM
That looks pretty good. I would desaturate your reds a bit either in PS or at post process.
Looking really good. I think the overall look is a bit 'clean' though. Anyway to dirty the texture a bit and have the aircraft look used?
Deetz
songbird
08-15-2007, 2:59 AM
Yes, it looks a bit too clean I think and this pretty model maybe need more works on texture and bump maps. Hope to see the final render mate!:)
Hello, thanks for advice. I´ll do some work with the maps. Little weathering and desaturation. I dont know how to improve bump maps. I´ve got panel lines and gentle gray variations to create uneven feeling on the surface but thats apparently not enough.
Pfew...I think I am done with this composition. IŽll might do some other angle later.
Galgot
09-05-2007, 3:57 PM
Very nice ! Like that light weathering...
for sure, do some other angles ! :) With these wingtip tanks ...
Yes I like the weathering, nicely done!
Deetz
Thanks! Gray might be too light, but I am happy with the result.
mathew woodgrowse
09-11-2007, 3:54 PM
Found a good walkaround for Yak-23 in Monino.
Here's a link: http://www.cartula.net/modules/xoopsgallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=Yak23Flora
zapacitu
09-25-2007, 4:55 PM
Found a good walkaround for Yak-23 in Monino.
Here's a link: http://www.cartula.net/modules/xoopsgallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=Yak23Flora
That's not Monino, but Bucharest, Romania.
MrKo, would you have any idea what was the original colour of the bort numbers of the Polish YAK-23s as delivered from USSR? Yellow or red? Or something else?
I have no clue about the original color but ask MRYS, he´s from Poland and knows a lot.
Hey mates. Does anyone happen to have any idea why this problem occurs? Scene has skylight and MR spot. Its rendered in mental ray with final gather. Its wierd cause I did few renders which were ok . Then I changed slightly the intenstity of the spot and this happens. Now I cant get back to the normal one anymore.
kevjon
01-18-2008, 8:38 AM
Looks like you found the bug in Mental Ray when using max's standard or raytrace materials.
This doesn't happen when using Mental Ray materials.
There is plenty of threads at cgtalk in the max section about this but to be honest no one has really been able to describe exactly what causes it. From my experience it most often happens when using reflective materials but what actually triggers it off all of a sudden I haven't worked out.
You could try starting a clean file and merging all objects into it except the lights. Then create new mr lights and see if that cures the problem.
Thanks, its tiny little annoying problem but I love to merge objects and setting up the lighting scenes again and again. Its just so fun!;)
Skyraider3D
01-18-2008, 4:08 PM
Funky :)
Yes definitely convert your materials. Here's a useful script for it: http://mentalraytips.blogspot.com/2007/02/max-9-converting-other-materials-to.html
Yeah, I see colors maan:) Thanks, I check out that script.
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