He111 on the move

[mikeb]

I'm doing a Battle of Britain animation at the moment (when i find the time)..

I did a He111 a while ago, i'm presently doing an animatic of the animation. Then i'm going to come back to my models and their textures, when i know exactly what is required from them..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/he111.jpg

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/smoketest.mov

[Archetype]

hey mike first off welcoome to mm !

Second

looking good so far

do you have any other angles ?

[mikeb]

Not rendered out yet, By the time the animatic is done, my skills and technique will be better than they are at present (learning something new everyday and all that).

Once i have a version of the animatic that i (and you folks) like, then i'll put together test shots of my final aircraft armada. For all your scrutiny and c crits..

So far i've done the hurricane, spitfire, Me109, Me110 and this He111 for this animation.

Still a bit job ahead..

[giant551]

The animation looks really great:eek:

[Meshfan]

BEAUTIFUL. Another great animation by Dog House Animations.

[krazycolin]

looks good.... this is part of the other one posted? i do have one concern... the other anim appears to be a POV (point of view) from the attacking plane... if so... is your POV going to be changing to other planes? exactly how are you planning to do so? i'd love to see the animatic even if its not rendered out.. greyscale is fine.. even wireframe...

[Nils]

Really good, one gets the feeling of seeing a dying beast :)

[mikeb]

Your gonna have to wait for the animatic, till i'm happy with it nobody else gets to see it, otherwise people would be asking me to fix mistakes i already knew about. A waste of your well appreciated con. critisisms..

As for techniques i'm not worried, i can do what i like with the cameras, i've spent months toying with different ways of doing everything..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/comptest3p.mov

[MagnumHB]

I swear I've heard that sound on the Hurricane one before somewhere. I think it's flying too slowly though. It doesn't look natural, and the sound suggests a different speed and distance travelled.

[neilh8888]

Mike, fantastic work! I did a similar project when I was first starting out with Max...WAAAAAY too ambitious at the time. Your looks a lot like I wished mine looked. I've checked out your website as well and really like the other aviation related stuff on the site.

What technique are you using to make the aircraft fly? (looks like spline path to me).

[mikeb]

Sorry for the delay i've had other work on and what i'd planned out as a simple animatic sequence is now >6 minutes long and still doesn't convey all the story i want to deliver, yet..

The sound is there just to add to the sequence, all the scenes and sounds will be new in the full project..

Sometimes my a/craft are on slines, othertimes keyframed, depending on how many a/craft are on screen and what they're doing..

In the meantime here is a flyby of the he111..
http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/he111%20flyby.mov

p.s. hows the sound on this one?

[cobra6]

The corner the plane is making is WAY to sharp.
Sound needs to be stretched since he is to close to the camera to make it fade away yet.

Cobra 6

[JFandL]

You could add some control surface movements.

[Dann-O]

Nice a bit short but put a fe wof those together and you got something.

[mikeb]

You'd really be suprised how tightly these a/craft could manouver, i'll post an example from real footage later on..

The control surfaces do move just not very much in this animation, i'm on the case.

[cobra6]

You'd really be suprised how tightly these a/craft could manouver, i'll post an example from real footage later on..

The control surfaces do move just not very much in this animation, i'm on the case.

Indeed they do sometimes. But its not safe to make such a tight turn with a bomber. Puts a lot of stress on the structure. That is if it can be done with a H111

Cobra 6

[mikeb]

These are two shots taken from the film "Battle of britain", both shots of a real he111 manouvering, not actually doing any damage to itself..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/footage.wmv

I get the feeling these weren't lumbering, techniquly absent, cannon fodder.. But actually quite nimble..

[kiwi123]

Actually in IL2, which is supposed to be "pretty good" you can drop a heavy bomb with a he111 in water from 10 meters with a delayed fuse, fly a looping straight through the watersplash :lol:

[roshent]

These are two shots taken from the film "Battle of britain", both shots of a real he111 manouvering, not actually doing any damage to itself..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/footage.wmv

I get the feeling these weren't lumbering, techniquly absent, cannon fodder.. But actually quite nimble..
Keep in mind that during the filming the Casa's (not He) were probably not loaded up with any payload. That should make them more nimble. Besides seeing these turns they are doing look to me as standard rate, my counter shows at least 4 seconds before they are at 45, they are just going thru the 45° which makes it look more dramatic.

[mikeb]

Sorry to get geeky for a moment:
1. The spanish built casa 2111 had an identical airframe to the he111, the only difference was the merlin engines they fitted, increaseing top speed from 258mph (for the h-3) to 288 mph..
2. The payload wouldn't have been on board anymore as nearly all dogfights in the battle of britain happened after the bombers had dropped there bombs..
3. And i think these planes are passing well past 45°, looks more like 90° to me..

Still don't get me wrong, i am having trouble with getting my animatic to look right!?
All c critisism is most welcome..

[roshent]

Sorry to get geeky for a moment:

Don't say sorry, just trying to help, I hope the right way... :)
1. might be true, I'm not a He fanatic, what is more important is if the control surfaces are the same in this respect.
2. I guess a "few" would beg to differ on that. Since their aim was to destroy them before they released their bombload. That's why they had early radar invented anyway. I'm not a statistics man but I know that there are statistics about this subject.
3. Yeah I said so, they go past the 45°. It's just that a standard rate turn is measured at 45°. Which also goes for the rollrate. If your unsure what a standard rate turn and roll rate is I'll explain that part.
Just watch that movie and start your counter when they start their turn, when they go past the 45 check your counter again. Anything in between 3 or 4 seconds is standard rate. Pretty slow in other words for a combat plane, bomber or not.
Keep in mind that doing a 3 to 4 second turn in the horizontal (what they are doing in the movie, the first one even does that without using rudder, just watch the tailslide on that one) gives an attacking fighter a deadduck for 3 or 4 seconds. 3 or 4 seconds firepower of a .303 what they had at the time in Hurricanes and Spitfires is a lot of bullets. Someone else can probably elaborate on that...
So I guess I dont agree with you that they were nimble...

[cobra6]

Sorry to get geeky for a moment:
1. The spanish built casa 2111 had an identical airframe to the he111, the only difference was the merlin engines they fitted, increaseing top speed from 258mph (for the h-3) to 288 mph..
2. The payload wouldn't have been on board anymore as nearly all dogfights in the battle of britain happened after the bombers had dropped there bombs..
3. And i think these planes are passing well past 45°, looks more like 90° to me..

Still don't get me wrong, i am having trouble with getting my animatic to look right!?
All c critisism is most welcome..

1st is wrong. Ive been modelling the CASA's interior for a while now in max and I was planning on doing a German Heinkel also. But the airframe does differ in some ways in the fuselage.
Example near the CASA windows. The german heinkel that didnt have windows had a different framing in that part.

And in your movie they also turn much slower than yours in your animation ;)


Cobra 6

[roshent]

I wasn't able to watch your movie before, but now that I've seen it I think the only problem that I have with it with regard to the flying is that last bit of the turn. In order to do that, coming out of a dive and going both around the corner and towards an upward motion, would require a hefty amount of back pulling on the stick (didn't they had steeringwheels in He111??). Giving the fact that their control surfaces are only hand operated, getting a plane upwards in that quick rate would require more then one man can handle. There is nothing dramatic going on that would influence that steeringinput so I think that last bit of the turn is unrealistic. Either it was redlining it's engines to have that much speed which would allow this upwards motion together with the turn, a flat turn makes you loose speed, or they would have shoved the throttle's forward to be able to go up at all. I think the rate of descending and climbing to the horizontal is too fast. There simply is not enough enginepower to get that done, even jet's can't do that easily.
Apart from that, certainly a reasonable heavy beast as a He111 would see it's tail move, either a slide to the right because the rudder is not that effective at that speed (you can press the pedals but the wind, in this case the crosswind around the fuselage, is too strong for a man). As you have it now the plane is too static, it doesn't take that much movement in the plane but it's certainly not as a static turn as you have it now. If you make the tail do something else then just follow the nose of the plane in the turn I think it's looking much more convincing.
Alls this beside, your far more advanced as many around here with making movies, so certainly keep your efforts up, I'm just trying to get a good animator better !