Mark IV Male Heavy Tank

[Lukem]

First off - a big thanks to Danoku, Canadair and Caman0.:)

Just to prove I've started it!

Very early days yet - this render shows it in MkV configuration; I'm re-shaping it to MkIV at the moment (it's surprising how much changed).

[Martocticvs]

Well, a solid start! Look forward to seeing this develop, I rather like this tank.

[Danoku]

Nice start! happy to help, looking sweet so far, hope your m8 is doing better

[canadair]

Croikey, that was fast. Looks the proper shape alright. At this rate you're well ahead of me. Was a pleasure to provide my psd file. Glad someone more ambitious than I can get around to modelling one of these...so much potential.

[Lukem]

Thanks guys! Just hope I can keep this pace going:D Although, there should be a lot of repetition in the details - fingers crossed! Your PSD file really helped Canadair. Without it, I wouldn't have got this far.

I'll keep you posted..

[Lukem]

Last night's update (couldn't get on MM last night for some reason:confused: )

The main shape and sponson have been adjusted to MkIV spec and I've started to detail the outer hull.

C & C would be much appreciated.

[Lukem]

Last night's progress - why can't I get on MM during the night?

Starting to get into the detail on the outside plate - see what you think.

[digiartist]

I know nothing about this tank so I cant comment on the accuracy, but it looks like a mighty fine start to me!

[canadair]

Nice, very nice. Oh those track tensioners at the front, they're tricky bits. You working fast, keep it up.

[Lukem]

Cheers Gareth - as for accuracy, the roof is going to be a lot of guess work!

Cheers Canadair. Hmm, sprocket tensioners - the worst bit was trying to simulate the thread on the bolt. The rest was surprisingly straight forward - unlike the towing eye points...

Day 4 - Rivets! (and other bits). The good thing about this tank, is that I don't have to paint any welds (unlike the KT), it's all bolted or riveted.

[JFandL]

starting off very well.

John

[Martocticvs]

Looking good!

[Lukem]

Cheers guys! Long time no see John - are you well?

Day 5 - more guess work with the rollers, some of the rivets have been replaced with bolts. The outer plate and running gear parts are about finished - sponson next.

[Sphynx]

Looks great so far.

[canadair]

You're a sprinter! That looks great!

[Lukem]

Thanks guys!:)

Hopefully, there will be an update tomorrow....

[Martocticvs]

Nice level of detail you're going for here - good stuff.

[JFandL]

Moving along very nice!

John

[krazycolin]

very good stuff.... it's getting there.... can't wait to see it textured

[Caman0]

wow nice work man! it looks awesome, full of detail :)

updates updates updates :)

[Lukem]

Cheers guys!

The problem with this level of detail is that the polycount is getting a bit of a hammering - 800K so far! Fortunately, the outer plates are the most detailed areas (that I can see) - the other poly heavy bit will be the tracks. All 180 of them!

Texturing - I think I'll run out of time before I can do a full unwrap texture job. Bits of it will be unwrapped (a track link for example), but much of the rest of it will be painted on flat planes or procedural. Mud is unlikely - there will be time for that on the next one!

Caman0: I'm at work at the moment - hopefully, I'll be able to post later (about 9pm GMT).:D

[julnyapp]

Hi Lukem! How is it going mate? ;)

Great start on this one. The outer plates/armour will be heaven for texturing possibilities. I agree with you on texturing, tell me about it(hetzer)...

[Lukem]

Hi Julnyapp! Not bad - how about you? Thanks for the kind words.:)

Day 6 - Sponsons (part 1) I hate them. And to think I've got to go through this again for the other side - they are sided. Shouldn't look too bad when covered with bolts & rivets - what do you guys think?

[Lukem]

Working on the guns at the moment (no pictures). Does anyone have any pictures of the 6 pounder gun carriage?

[Lukem]

Okay: Day 8

I have finally sorted out the guns and have started adding rivets and other details to the starboard sponson.

[canadair]

Nicely done!

[Caman0]

looks awesome man

you're fast!!

[Lukem]

Thanks guys!

Caman0: I'm shocking myself with this one! Mind you, I'm spending every available moment on it. If I'm not at home building it, I'm working out how to do bits and what bits to do next at work. To think the KT took 3 months....:D

[kevjon]

Very nice details...keep going.

[Lukem]

Cheers mate! I'm hoping to finish the sponson tonight....

[Lukem]

Last night's progress - the starboard sponson is finally complete. (hooray!)

[Caman0]

that is the shit right there man!! awesome work, love all the bolts and rivets, they really give it that old mechanical appearance!

[JFandL]

Outstanding work Lukem,

John

[Lukem]

Thanks for the kind words!:)

Day 11 - Didn't get much done. The teeth were taken off the idlers at the front, some internal stuff done to the track units.

Day 12 - Back panel.

[canadair]

That's looking fantastic. I agree, the bolts and rivets give it a - for lack of a better word - rustic appeal. Nothing says "impenetrable armour" like a half inch or so of soft steel riveted together in a hurry. Then again, imagine the terror at seeing these things for the very first time inch towards you over the battlefield...(only to get stuck in the mud). Ah, the golden age of mechanical engineering.

Have you checked out the Lebedenko tank (aka the Tsar Tank)? I'd like to do that one next.

I digress, that is looking very nice indeed.

[Lukem]

Thanks mate - I've not seen the Tsar tank yet. BTW, I have recieved your email, I tried to send something at the weekend but I guess it was a bit too big. When I get a chance, I'll reduce the attachment size and try again.

Working on the roof at the moment - I've also got to go back to the museum with a step ladder today!

Pictures soon...:)

[Lukem]

Update: Day 15

Working on the roof; more rivets needed and the rope box needs more work. Then the exhaust system, followed by the front and floor of the hull.

C & C would be much appreciated.

[Hitori Kyo]

doing a great job, keep up the good work!

- Hitori Kyo

[JFandL]

Going along at a fast pace! Looking very good as well.

John

[Caman0]

cant wait for the tracks :)

What can i say, it looks awesome man!

[Lukem]

Thanks for the kind words guys - much appreciated.:)

John: Sure beats 3 months for the KT dosen't it!:D However, a christmas deadline is starting to look unlikely - I might be close to having the model finished. Then I've got to get it printed and framed - no chance.

Caman0: I'm (almost) looking forward to doing the tracks. They are going to be the first things I intend to texture - UV one link and duplicate it, about 179 times!

More work to do on the hull tonight - might get a chance to start on the exhaust - update soon.

[Lukem]

Day 16 - Finished work on the rope box and have moved on to the exhaust system. More rivets too.

[Lukem]

Day 17 (Part 1) - Spot the difference.

I apologise in advance if anyone who reads this post is or is related to and employee of Emhar model company.

Due to relying on a 1/72 scale kit of a Mark IV Male (by Emhar), I today found out that quite a critical part was completely wrong - see if you can see what that part was. Canadair should know.

[Caman0]

what difference? :) i was never good at those games, but im missing it i think...

[Lukem]

Day 17 (Part 2) - Exhaust is finished, MG added to Glacis plate as well as more rivets (not worth a picture).

Okay, the difference is (drum roll please) the back of the male type sponson. According to the Emhar kit, the back of the sponson is perpendicular to the hull (unlike the MkV). According to the rest of the world, it isn't and infact is at an angle (like the MkV). I was a little annoyed when I found that out. It's an angle of about 7 degrees by my reckoning - it's noticeable.

[canadair]

Day 17 (Part 1) - Spot the difference[....] Canadair should know.

Wow stumped me. Glad I modelled mine with an angle then. Keep in mind, I've few resources to go on. Not very many Mark IV's or V's found their way back to Canada. That landship site has some great stuff on, though. I went exploring a bit more last night. Anywho, I'm headed back to the sponsons and sides this weekend, hoping to finish those up when I get the forward cupola done. Then I will open a beer and start riveting/bolting. Your's is looking mighty fine I must say.

As for tracks, I was actually thinking about doing a couple different UV sets and applying it to a couple different tracks to break up and patterns that might arise from just repeating one. Out of curiousity, are you animating this?

[Lukem]

You do have one resource I don't have - a side view drawing (and plan view) of a MkV male! Although, I do have the benefit of being able to visit a MkIV Female whenever I like. That Landships site has proved invaluable through this - I would'nt have been able to build this tank without it, so thanks again for the link mate!

Animation? No chance!:D

[bzhyoyo]

That's very good-looking Lukem, and with your texturing skills, I'm impatient to see the final results.
Could we have a close-up wireframe of a rivet please ?

[Lukem]

Sure - a couple of wires for you. I thought a wire of one rivet would be a bit boring, so I added a few more and threw in a few bolts too. Thanks for the kind words mate!

Day 18 - Haven't done much. I've started work on the driver's hatches.

[Lukem]

Day 19 - part 2

Central hull virtually complete (just the petrol tank to go)
Rollers rebuilt, driver's cab lowered, sprockets/idlers revised, more rivets.

[JFandL]

Very nice and clean!

John

[canadair]

Wow man, that's looking so great! All those rivets are paying off.

[kevjon]

When you see photos of this tank, it looks relatively simple at a casual glance but when you see it in 3D you really get to appreciate just how detailed it is. Looks great !

[Lukem]

Thankyou very much for the compliments friends!

Kevjon: I think you've hit the nub of the problem I've got. I thought I could get it built a bit quicker, certainly taking in to account the amount of repetition. UV Mapping is going to be a nightmare!:D

I think I have decided not to install the unditching beam and rails - I have found photos of MkIV Males (even built in Lincoln) without them. I'm toying with the idea of fitting the roof mounting points for them though; Which leaves petrol tank, port sponson and tracks.

[Caman0]

congrats on the header, well deserved :)

[kevjon]

I think the modelling job you've done is well worth a header too. The potential with this model is great.

I don't envy you tank or ship guys when it comes time to uv mapping. I would'nt know where to begin with all the detail bits let alone know how to keep track of them in the uv maps. I'm sure there are areas where short cuts can be taken tho.

[Skyraider3D]

That's looking real solid, Lukem! Well deserved header!

[Lukem]

Wow! - whoever put this on the header, thankyou very much!:) It's a great honour and much appreciated. And thanks to everyone for the positive feedback and Canadair for the MkV Blueprints.

Kevjon: You want to see the UV maps I've got for the KT - and that's just the turret!:D I'm not sure how to handle this one (due to time constraints), but I'm hoping the modelling will be finished before christmas - then I'll post a stochastic render.

Before that however, I've got to sort out the port side sponson. I've sent an email to someone from the Tank Group (they were instrumental in getting 'Flirt II', my main source of reference, restored and exhibited in Lincoln) asking for details, but it dosen't look as easy a job as I first imagined - we'll see.

[Karras]

Congrats, for your Work . The only one Tank on Header ( all planes ) je,je,je,je.

[Lukem]

Thanks Karras!

Update day 21: The port side sponson is complete, despite no response from the tank group. If you compare this render with one of the ones posted on sunday, you can see the difference.

[giant551]

Congrats on the header its well deseved:D

[JFandL]

Starting to stand out Lukem! WTG

John

[digiartist]

congrats on the header mate, truly deserved!

[Caman0]

that looks mighty fine there mate!!

excellent detail!

[Hitori Kyo]

A very fine job Lukem, keep up the great work!

- Hitori Kyo

[Lukem]

Thanks for the kind words guys, much appreciated.

Update day 22: (no piccies yet) Petrol tank pretty much finished, I've just got to check the widths of the top and bottom plates. Exhaust has been revised slightly.

The list of modelling items left to do is getting shorter...:D Then the nightmare of UV mapping.

Should be able to post pictures later today - just got to get through work first!

[Lukem]

Update day 23:

Petrol tank finished, rear brackets / mounting plates / applique armour plate added, drivers view ports revised.

[Lukem]

Update Day 24:

The modelling was finished about 13 hours ago.:D

Here are a couple of clay renders - what do you think?

[cobra6]

I would run very very hard if I saw that monster comming towards me, thats for sure.

Dang thats a nice model! Nice and technical looking, the way I like it :)

Cobra 6

[kevjon]

Looks fantastic, well done !

[Skyraider3D]

I think it looks bloody marvellous. If anything, make a tiny chamfer on the edges of the exhaust cylinder on top of the tank.

Now animate her! ;)

[JFandL]

really good work and very fast comming together Lukem,

texture time I guess?


John

[Lukem]

Thanks for the kind words everyone!

Cobra: Cheers mate! You wouldn't have to run that fast - it only had a top speed of 3mph! But the tank museum at Bovington has built a full size diorama of a German trench - you walk through it, turn a corner and there is a dummy of a German soldier running from something. You look left and up and sitting on the ramparts is a Mark I (see the photo). I can't imagine the impact those things had on the battlefield.

Kevjon: Cheers mate!

Ronnie: Thanks a lot mate. I've had a look at the silencer - believe it or not, I had already bevelled the edges on it and the shroud at the back - but thanks anyway. I have added a couple to the outlet (ringed in red). However, your comments did lead to me revising the rope box and upper rails - the track links came too close - see what you think.

John: Cheers mate. It is indeed texture time - and scenery time!

Unfortunately, you are going to have to wait for more stochastic renders - my rendering machine lunched it's monitor yesterday. Those renders took about 2.5 hours each on friday / saturday - they would take in the region of 5 hours on the modelling machine! Therefore, in answer to your comment regarding animation Ronnie - a little unlikely at the moment. I'd like to give it a go one day though - unless Canadair beats me to it!:D

[canadair]

Wow, Lukem, you just plowed on to the end there! That looks really fantastic. Must have breen pretty satisfying to see those last renders with the tracks on come up. I know I thought to myself - so that's what it'll look like. What a brute. Yeah I would echo the sentiments of the previous posts, these things must have really changed the front lines. They must have also had the biggest bullseye painted on them as I doubt they were too too stealthy despite the silencer (chamfered or not).

Hmmm texturing. I don't know how body paint works (you're using C4D right?), but the notion of texturing has always been in the back of my mind as I've been modelling mine - well, sorting out UV's is more like a headache actually. Good luck and have a good holiday.

[Hitori Kyo]

fantastic work "Lukem" i look foward to seeing this fine machine textured.
keep up the good work.

- Hitori Kyo

[Lukem]

Thanks guys! I still maintain BP is worth having - UV mapping can still be a nightmare, but certainly with camo. schemes it's easier to keep the 'splodges' / stripes etc seamless using it.

Talking about texturing, I've spent today trying out different colour / lighting combinations - I don't see much value in painting texture maps, until I've found a reasonable base colour.

I apologise now for the poor lighting!:D

[Hitori Kyo]

i like the darker of the two, plus when it comes to weathering it will work much better with a darker base for dust, drymud ect.

- Hitori Kyo

[JFandL]

Looking Good so far Lukem,

Yes BP is just outstanding really. just make sure you use the Photoshop layers instead of .tiff . Did you upgrade to R10 yet?

John

[Lukem]

Cheers mate! It's quite an awkward colour to match. According to the Landships site, it's supposed to be Dark Khaki. When I visited Bovington, HMLS Excellent appeared to be painted dark green. Then, looking at photos of HMLS Excellent (and Mark V Tank 9199) taken in daylight, the colour appears to be a sandy yellowy green.:confused:

Day 29 Update: Track links have been remodelled. I got the shape slightly wrong, but it makes a slight difference as I hope you'll agree.

Sorry John - didn't see you there:) I will be using PSD format, as I am with the KT.

R10? I very much doubt it. When they look at the modelling side then maybe (and perhaps include Mental ray) - but I want to find a program with full nurbs capability - XSI is a strong possibility. C4D will probably remain a very big part of my workflow however - for user-friendliness it has yet to be beaten, in my eyes at least.

[Deprite]

oh, man..thats lovely :D
every single rivet modeled....
thats the kind of detail level i like :D

[Caman0]

can almost feel the rough metal!!!

excellent work man
gotta say it though, last render is a bit grainy ;)

[Lukem]

Deprite: Cheers mate!

Caman0: Thanks again - hopefully, you'll see the rough metal soon - I'll get my chalk brush ready!:D The grainy look you mentioned could be due to the stochastic render method I'm using - lighting isn't a strong point of mine!

Day 31:

The model hierachy has been sorted out, the plates above the sponsons now have their rivets actually touching the plate, as opposed to 6" away (don't ask). This should be the last 'blue' stochastic render you see of it.

Next: UV mapping.

Oh joy....

[JFandL]

The MG cover is still gray Lukem,

Really nice model sir, Looking to see what you come up with on the textures.

John

[Lukem]

Ah ha! Someone spotted it!

Look quite nice to me - but it was a slight mistake....

[JFandL]

Looks real nice to me too,

Hows the UV mapin going?

John

[Lukem]

Slowly, but surely, mate!

[JFandL]

CC that,

I like the R3 BP alot better they got ride of that bug where you pick a face on this side and the software also picked one face or two on the other.

John

[giant551]

Well buddy it just keeps getting better, mothing more to say its great:D

[The_onion]

ill take one, does it come in red?


a class model sir, i cant wait to see that with mud all over it in a somme setting :)

[Lukem]

John: I must admit R3 would be the main reason I upgraded (if). I've had a few issues with R2.5 this week, picking the wrong points and so on.

Giant551: Cheers mate!

The Onion: Sadly, the only colour scheme for this one appears to be dark khaki!:D Thanks a lot for the kind words mate!

Due to a change of job description at work, I've been pretty tied-up this week, but I've UVed the main parts of the track frames - I'd like to say that the UV Mapping will be finished by the end of the weekend; we'll see. It's taking longer than I would have hoped...

[Martocticvs]

The detail on this is very nice - looking forward to seeing the textured version.

[Lukem]

Update: Day something or other.

Unwrapping still continues - will have to try and build a model with less polygons one day. The sponsons and track frames are finished, the central hull is progressing. It's just taking longer than I had hoped.

[zarroun]

Just in case you haven't noticed it yet, you can just simply duplicate the UV tag onto an object that has the same polygons. It's a big time saver.
Love the model, makes me want to watch Indiana Jones.

[Lukem]

Yep, although for some reason the polys went a bit funny when I tried - so I copied some of the objects instead! Thanks for the kind words mate!

UV Unwrapping is finally complete!:D Time to reach for the paint brush...

[Hitori Kyo]

great! look forward to the updates!

- Hitori kyo

[kevjon]

Can't wait to see the textures too, lots of (no mans land) mud and dirt.

[zarroun]

Happy BodyPainting! It's a fun tool to use. I too am anxious to see the tank in colors.

[Lukem]

Update:

The call signs and tank numbers are in place. I haven't attached a picture because it wouldn't be that exciting - dark green with a few numbers on it.

This may seem like a silly question, but how do you paint uncovered metal, i.e. the machine guns and track links? I've absolutely no idea, so any help you can give would be much appreciated.

Meanwhile, I'm off to distress the paintwork a bit.

[kevjon]

Metal generally has very high specularity on blinn or phong shaders and usually a raytrace material is used to reflect the enviroment (skydome or similar). If you need to create gun metal color would be a very dark grey, aluminium is light blue grey, etc.

[Lukem]

Cheers mate - I'll give that a go.

[JFandL]

you could send me one of your tread links if you want?

[Lukem]

Thanks for the kind offer John - I want to give it a go myself first, but I may well take you up on it.

First however, I must sort out the hull :D

[Lukem]

OK, a small screenshot of current progress - just disrupting the basic colour at the moment.

C & C (and advice) most welcome!

[Skyraider3D]

Apart from the "102" looking too vivid, it looks great!

[JFandL]

the 102 looks off level as well.

[Lukem]

Cheers Ronnie! The numbers were a bit bright - does this look any better?

Trust me John, it's level:D The tank might be wonky though....

[Skyraider3D]

Perhaps lower the saturation of the red a little bit, just to take off the edge. Otherwise it's spot on now! :)

[cobra6]

Very nice :) also you could try chipping some pieces of the 102 off, that would also give it a better look :)

[JFandL]

Ah was the view that made it look off level, cool

[Hitori Kyo]

looking great, i agree with Joep's coment about the chipping.

- Hitori kyo

[Lukem]

Thanks for the advice people - much appreciated:)

Joep / Hitori Kyo: Thanks for the suggestion - I'm not sure how far I'll go with beating this one up. 102 was a training tank, so I'm not sure how badly damaged it would have got. I'll see how it goes:)

Ronnie: Will do - just want to make a bit more headway on the rest of the hull first. Thanks a lot for the help mate!

John: Don't you just love perspective renders!:D

[Lukem]

I've finished stage 1 of the discolouration - it's also got a subtle bump on it now (look carefully!).

The red part of 102 has been toned down - does it look any better?

[Skyraider3D]

Looks great!
The bump is perhaps a little bit too "leathery". Maybe increasing the glossiness a little bit would help. Looking at the real thing, you might not even need a bump like that. Or perhaps something more streaky.
http://tanxheaven.com/ljs/mark-I-IV-IX(male_female)ljs/markI-IV-IXljs.htm
The bumpy surface on the IWM museum example is most likely the result of too many layers of paint, and not authentic.


PS. The other museum should tone down their "102" :lol:

[Lukem]

So, you can see where I got the bright red from! It's all the tank museum's fault!:D

Thanks for the comments regarding the bump - I'm still not sure what the finished product will look like; I just wanted to get the basic bits done. The attached photo shows an edge of the port sponson of Flirt II, a MkIV Female. Whether this layer will show up in a final render I don't know. I want to play with staining a bit, then I'll start looking at the glossiness - thanks again for the advice mate!

[Eraserhead]

Great model and textures of one of my all time favorite tanks!

[Hitori Kyo]

looking good so far Lukem, the red looks much better now. I agree with skyraider3d about the paint.

- Hitori Kyo

[Lukem]

Thanks for the kind words friends!

Yep, I've got to figure the paint bump out - German tanks are far easier in the bump map department!:D

[Lukem]

I have not had a good week! A word of advice to anyone with a digital camera - get your photos on to a CD / DVD. Don't do what I did and wait for the hard disk to become corrupt, hence, lose absolutely everything.

Fortunately, both the MkIV and the King Tiger were on my other machine, so I have only lost my reference photos.

Anyway, Update: I've been playing with the specular colour channel a bit and then thought to start adding a bit of mud. The specular has yet to be tied into the mud (which has only been applied to the starboard track frame). The lighting is only very basic - just something to test the sc channel.

C & C would be much appreciated.

[cobra6]

I thought it was rust near the gun^_^

Sad thing that your disk crashed. I copy everything on two HD's, chance of them both breaking down is very small, so I hope I get away with it.

Glad you models are ok though! :)

Cobra 6

[Skyraider3D]

I have not had a good week! A word of advice to anyone with a digital camera - get your photos on to a CD / DVD. Don't do what I did and wait for the hard disk to become corrupt, hence, lose absolutely everything.Thanks for reminding me. I got about a year's worth of photos on mine. They should introcude 36-day hours... Sorry to hear about your misfortune :(

On the upside the tank looks great. I'd still get rid of the bumpmap as it is now, though, unless you want to show as it is in the museum, with several layers of rough overpaint. If you want a WWI authentic finish, you probably need to get the surface a lot smoother. Bumpiness on cast bits is fine, but panels wouldn't have this.

[Hitori Kyo]

sorry to hear about your hd Lukem. The dirt on your tank looks great so far keep up the good work! .. as for the bump.. I still think it needs to be toned down, only slightly tho.

- Hitori kyo

[Lukem]

Thanks for the kind words - sadly, on closer inspection, the Tiger didn't get away completely unscathed (I also lost the last bump map for it). Nevermind.

Joep: You are quite right - there is a cheeky bit of rust near the starboard 6 pounder, just to see if it would work.

Ronnie: Okay, the bump is going - although, it may be replaced with flakes of mud. Thanks for the advice mate!

Hitori: Cheers mate!

[Mirko]

Great work Lukem. Very nice textures/bump!
:salute:

[Lukem]

Cheers Mirko!:)

Here's a little bit more mud, a few oil stains and a bit more rust. The specular is now tied in with the mud.

Any ideas on how to paint a decent bump map for mud? My attempts didn't look good.

[Mirko]

Cheers Mirko!:)

Here's a little bit more mud, a few oil stains and a bit more rust. The specular is now tied in with the mud.

Any ideas on how to paint a decent bump map for mud? My attempts didn't look good.

Hi Lukem

in attached finds an example of bump for the mud. I hope it you can be useful!
:salute:

[cobra6]

Stolen that too for my panther ;)

Cobra 6

[Lukem]

Nice one! Thankyou very much Mirko:)

[JFandL]

Looking alot better with some weathering !

John

[Caman0]

looks great man!! :)

i think the paint could perhaps be a but more shiny, with some noise-bumb? it looks kind of flat imo...

other than that, excellent work!

[Lukem]

Cheers John!:)

I know what you mean Caman. It could be something to do with the lighting (which is very basic ATM, but enough to show the specular) - but at some angles the tank looks very 'wet'.

I'm playing with the track links at the moment, then I'll finish the 'mud' map and start playing with it generally.

The exhaust now has a slight texture by the way.....:D

[Lukem]

Could I have an opinion on the tracks please? I quite like the effect (the bump is a little severe but...).

It does show up how flat the rest of it is though.

[Skyraider3D]

The tracks look quite nice, with chunks of grassy mud stuck to is.
Not sure about the dust and oil, which looks airbrushed on, and the rust which feels out of place.

[Hitori Kyo]

good work Lukem. I agree with Skyraiders coment, maybe make the dust edges rougher .... The oil stain would not be black as u have it at the moment, as its wet it would be the first thing to collect dust. It should just have the appearance of wet dust.

- Hitori kyo

[Martocticvs]

I have to agree with the last two comments - overall it is looking very nice, but I think you need to work on the dust and oil a bit more yet.

[Lukem]

Thanks for the comments guys!:)

This texturing thing is fun isn't it! I just wish they had colour photography in 1917...:D

[DCB]

As I said over at the Cafe, very nice indeed. What are your plans scenery-wise for the final render?

P.S. Nice to see you lurking here too John. ;)

[Lukem]

Nice to see you sir!

Final image - I don't know. I did have some ideas, but texturing is taking much longer than I had hoped - I'm running out of time, so I may have to settle for a profile at the moment.

[Lukem]

Well, I've reached the end of the road on this one.

Due to lack of time (and talent), I've had to ditch all the dirt, mud and all the scenery tests I've played with and produce the final image. Hopefully, I can get it printed & framed tomorrow for handover on wednesday. I'm not going to post the finished image until the recipient has seen it, but I've attached a moment of madness that I played with.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for the help & support (& the header!:D) you've given me on this - cheers!:)

(P.S. There is still the possiblity that this tank will be back, slightly revised and in a different colour scheme!)

[Skyraider3D]

Uh-oh, it's a cheesy wireframe render... ;)

Mate, please don't give up on the weathering after you've come this far. Do you have a digital camera at all? You can do some awesome things with a bunch of very basic photo of random surfaces. Rusty steel plates, dirty walls, a dirty car door. You can use these kind of photos to add weathering effects to your textures. Even if you don't have a camera or don't want to use photos you can create great effects using basic Photoshop filters. Try Render Clouds, Diffuse, Chrystalize, High Pass, just to name but a few. And also check out different Photoshop brushes. They can make all the difference sometimes.
What you did was try to draw on dirt with a default round brush and a solid colour by hand. And this simple doesn't work. It needs more detail, more randomness. Using photos you can speed up this process.
Try this: create a solid layer of dirt or dust or rust - i.e. to make your entire vehicle look terribly worn. Then with the erazor start removing the dirt from areas that don't need it. So rather than adding dirt, start with 100% dirst and remove it where it isn't needed. You'll naturally find yourself leaving it in corners and along panels and the end result will look much more natural and random than hand-painted dirt.
I hope this gives you some fresh food for thought :)

[Hitori Kyo]

I agree with Skyraider, keep up the good work and keep trying. You are so close and from such a project u could master the art of weathering.

- Hitori kyo

[kevjon]

While on the topic has anyone seen or know of any good books or DVD's on texturing. It is the main reason many of my planes remain unfinished as I can't get the results that I want.

The tutorials at simmers paintshop are a good start but need to know more.

[Lukem]

Yep - a cheesy wireframe image - I couldn't resist!:D

Ronnie: You have indeed given me plenty of food for thought and thanks for all your help along the way - apologies for being so dense at times!:lol

Basically, I've got to go and start collecting more reference and start playing around more - I'm certainly watching Cobra's Panther closely for ideas. I found your comment regarding starting with a full layer of dirt and removing bits very interesting - I'll have to try that.

Unfortunately, a deadline is a deadline and I had to finish up. The finished piece is closer to a technical illustration instead of one of Gareth's masterpieces (and no, it isn't the wireframe one).

I do, however, now have a fully unwrapped tank model that I can practice weathering on - I would appreciate your ongoing support very much.

Cheers.

P.S. Kevjon - when you find something, let me know please!:)

[Skyraider3D]

Kevin is right, the Simmerspaintshop has a bunch of fantastic tutorials. Do check em out: http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/forum37-photoshop/

[cobra6]

Yep - a cheesy wireframe image - I couldn't resist!:D
I'm certainly watching Cobra's Panther closely for ideas. I found your comment regarding starting with a full layer of dirt and removing bits very interesting

Lol I actually did that today on my panther, also I found out the following.

When applying a dust/sand layer instead of painting it on do this:
-Fill the layer with the generic sand color you wish
-Put it on dissolve and tweak the filling and "opacity"
-when you are happy with the amount of speckles, merge it with an empty layer to make it go to normal again instead of dissolve.
-Blur it just a tad to get the sharpnes out.
-Now take a eraser on a low strength setting and erase away.
-This way you'll get a more realistic dust effect because real dust/sand isnt transparent but little speckles

note this only works with high res maps (=>3000 px) because of the size of the speckels.

if you get this right it looks much better, well it does on my panther haha.

Cobra 6

[Lukem]

Right - Simmers paint shop is now in my favourites. Thanks for the link mate!:) Some of the images (particularly the header) look familiar somehow...:D

Thanks for the tip Cobra - with a bit of work that appears to work very nicely.

[cobra6]

Thanks for the tip Cobra - with a bit of work that appears to work very nicely.

that was the generic how-to.
Figured that out today at work, was thinking how I could make the sand more realistic.

Cobra 6

[kevjon]

Lukem and Cobra there is also a really good hard surface texture tutorial posted here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=46&t=373024) which would be very handy for tank modellers. Little extreme for us aircraft modellers tho.

[Hitori Kyo]

great "Kevjon" thanks alot for sharing the link.

- Hitori kyo

[Lukem]

Yes - thanks a lot Kevjon!:)

[cobra6]

nice tutorial but most of it is pretty obvious nevertheless :)

Cobra 6

[Lukem]

I remember Digiartist suggested bits of it to me for the King Tiger - I couldn't get my head around it (sorry Gareth!:)).

It's certainly given me more ideas - I'm going to start playing.

[Lukem]

I've started playing with this a bit - thanks to Ronnie, Kevjon and Cobra!

Ignoring the lack of work to the 6 pounder, (and early days yet) what do you think of the main hull plate?

[Skyraider3D]

There ya go! :) That's looking a lot more convincing already!

Play a bit with eraser density as well. All areas that have dirt on them appear to have the same amount of dirt. Take a big brush and swipe over it a few times with something like 10% eraser brush opacity, to thin out some of the dirty areas. Especially thin out the top of the tank - being not as close to the ground it would get less filthy.

Nice going! It's fun isn't it? :D

[kevjon]

Thats looks really good. Also try add some of the scratches and chipped paint and some heavier dirt and mud closer to the ground.

[Hitori Kyo]

looking great Lukem, dont forget oil stains.

- Hitori Kyo

[Lukem]

Thanks for the kind words and support guys! Much appreciated.:)

Here's another update - the dust still looks a bit too even, but I think the paint work looks a bit more distressed. Or have I gone too far?

Fun?:D

[cobra6]

nope its looking good! :)

But I would recommend doing a layer of dirt/mud at the bottom, to the level it might sink into the blubber ^_^

Cobra 6

[Hitori Kyo]

looking good, i think it needs rain streaks maybe. Heres some ref u may find useful.

http://www.tanxheaven.com/sd/TanksinTownSunday2006/TanksinTownSunday-001.jpg

- Hitori kyo

[Skyraider3D]

Very nice going!

There's loads of things you can weather tanks with. Dust, mud, scratches, paint chips, rust, oil stains, dents, rain streaks, sun bleaching, debris fromk trees that's fallen on the top and even bird poo! :lol: Almost as bad as trains, actually... but for trains add the effect of flushing a loo at 90 mph and spilling the contents over the undercarriage. OK, OK, I'll say no more ;)

[Mirko]

Nice one mate its coming along great !!

:salute:

[digiartist]

Luke, I've not seen this one in a while, so firstly congrats on finishing a superb looking model!
Hitori is right about adding rain streaks, they make a real difference to the overall weathering.

P.S. Hope you dont mind but I'm going to use your model as a 3 dimensional reference for some tank profiles I'm doing for a book. Photos generally are poor quality black and white ww1 ones or close ups of a walkaround.....your model is perfect for giving me an idea for the overall shape :)

[Lukem]

First off - thanks for the kind words and advise friends!

Ronnie: I don't suppose a train toilet thrown over it at a speed of 3 - 4mph would have the same effect would it?:D

Cobra: You are right - it definitely wants a better coat of mud at the bottom. Would you suggest a similar method to the dust/dirt layer?

Hitori: Rain streaks and oil (and Ronnie's bird poo) need to go on - you are right. Thanks for the link mate - have you looked at the photos of the La Gleize King Tiger on tanxheaven BTW? They illustrate your recommendations very well also.:)

Mirko: Cheers mate!

Gareth: Cheers and I'm very honoured that you want to use this model. Let me know if you want some better renders, or if you want a copy of the model itself mate.:)

Update: (no pictures) in between doing my part time job / day job, I'm trying to get the whole hull up to the same standard as the last render, then I can start getting some more 'muck' on it.

[cobra6]

-as a base it is a good start, but make the colour grey with a tad brown, most mud/sand when dried has a greyish colour
-next use a low opacity more brownish layer, not the same size but smaller, might repeat it a couple of times, to give it the drying effect.
For the mud itself I would suggest using a photo as a base and shopping your own details in. Or if you have a quality set of custom brushes use that.
It is very hard to "paint" realistic looking mud.

In the bumpmap give it a sort of half waterdrop shape (cut from bottom to top) with a bulge at the bottom.

Thats as far as I got with my panther (not visible yet in these renders, due to me not showing for some UV errors ;))

Cobra 6

[Lukem]

Cheers mate - points taken.

[Skyraider3D]

I don't suppose a train toilet thrown over it at a speed of 3 - 4mph would have the same effect would it?At that speed you're lacking the impact and subsequent splatter effect... :secret:

[Lukem]

Surely that depends on how high the toilet is when poured over? Point taken though - I'll stick to bird poo!:D

[Lukem]

Well, texturing has had to take a back seat - the model isn't as accurate as I would have hoped.

But that is changing!

The biggest external differences include the silencer, the 6 pounder mantlets and the width of the tracks (which need to be checked). I also have roof pictures of Flirt II, thanks to the curator at the Museum of Lincolnshire Life - so more changes there then!:\

More subtle alterations include changes to the transmission cover (which need to be slightly altered after this afternoon) and the addition of a few chains here and there.

[Skyraider3D]

You're a brave man, taking such a big step back to make your model better! Looking good - again! :)

[Hitori Kyo]

keep going Lukem its Looking great!

- Hitori Kyo

[Lukem]

Thanks guys!:)

More changes - the tracks have been narrowed (again), the transmission cover has been revised, a few bits altered on the roof (still not complete - difficult to work out what goes where as the photographed roof dosen't feature the exhaust mounts) and a few bits altered & added of a slightly more subtle nature.

The next update should be interesting....:D

[Hitori Kyo]

good work! When you retexture are you going to keep the same scheme or go for somthing new ?

- Hitori Kyo

[cobra6]

Looking nice allready :) Sad the texturing has to wait.

Cobra 6

[Lukem]

Hitori: No, it'll be a different tank entirely.

Cobra: I've got a few more mods to make - when I started revising the model, I didn't realise how much had to be changed. But, nearly there now.:D

[Lukem]

A slightly more interesting update than last time for you.

Not too much left to do now - although, I do need to try and check the new addition.

[kevjon]

Really impressive modelling and great detail.

Renders look great too.

[Hitori Kyo]

good work Lukem , I look forward to seeing the final model and new scheme.

- Hitori Kyo

[Lukem]

Thanks a lot guys!:) I'm hoping to tackle the unditching beam today - the beam itself should be easy enough (although, textures will be interesting), but the tackle for it could be fun.

Hopefully, a new update today.

[Lukem]

As mentioned above, here is the latest update, featuring the unditching beam.

This may be the last update for a while. Unfortunately, it would appear that I've got more work repairing the UVs than I would have hoped. But, I can confirm that the tank will look a bit different painted-up to the last one.

[Lashy]

Looking Awesome Lukem.
I have not been through the whole thread, have you textured it ?

[Lukem]

Cheers mate!:)

I did start painting it (I'm not very good at texturing), but I found problems with the model, which needed sorting out. It also gave me the opportunity to complete it.

[kevjon]

Nice detail on the beam. The chain looks great too, the way you got it to wrap around in a very realistic manner.

[Lukem]

Cheers!:)

I think I've finally worked out to use the Jenna Iterator plugin reliably (chains), but a bit of manual adjustment was still needed. Glad you like it!

[digiartist]

Lovely work Luke! This'll look great in a WW1 render. You're really showing yourself as a tank master.
Has the King Tiger completely put on hold now? :(

[kevjon]

Luke

When you get back onto texturing your tank. I recently bought this book (http://www.amazon.co.uk/3D-Game-Textures-Professional-Photoshop/dp/0240807685)
and can recommend it for learning a lot more about texturing. It doesn't cover topics on how to create textures for ships, tanks and aircraft but does show techniques for creating grungy textures for walls etc, which can be tweaked to suit miltary type vehicles. Plenty of good photoshop techniques are covered on how to use a combination of filters for creating interesting textures. Maybe it will help you get great looking textures to go with your superb model.

[Lukem]

Gareth: Nice to see you again mate!:D Thanks for the kind words too. The Tiger is on hold at the moment - when I pick it up again, I may need to add more geometry to the track hangers, just to get a decent weld round the fixture. Having said all that, I've just downloaded a demo of Mudbox - when I get a chance, I may well load in the turret and start playing.

Kev: Thanks a lot for that, mate - I shall have to look in to it a bit further and start saving! (especially with the possible Mudbox / Zbrush / XSI issue looming.):D

[Lukem]

Just a quick update (no piccies)

UV unwrapping is nearly complete - I've just got the rails and unditching beam to do. Hopefully, I can start painting later in the week.

[Hitori Kyo]

Good to hear Lukem looking forward to it.

- Hitori Kyo

[digiartist]

Ah the pleasures of texturing! Actually unwrapping a tank is the back breaker for me so you're over the worst in my book :)

Btw Luke, the Mark iv I'm depicting in my tank profile work is a captured German one with a rather funky paint job, might be a cool alternate when you're doing future renders. Although I'm not sure if they had any Males iv's as the ref pics I've seen all seem to be female iv's.

[Lukem]

Update (still no pictures!)

Painting has commenced - basic colours are pretty much complete on the port side. I'm not posting images until it's a bit more complete - sorry! (hopefully at the weekend):)

[Lukem]

Update:

Painting still continues! The basic colours are close to being complete, but still a lot of work to do.

See what you think...

[Hitori Kyo]

nice scheme choice Lukem keep up the good work!

- Hitori Kyo

[kevjon]

Must be hard finding information on accurate colors for these sorts of unusual schemes. It looks great.

[Lukem]

Thanks for the kind words guys!:)

Kev: The colours are based on information on the Landships website - even then, there are so many choices, so accuracy is difficult. As Gareth suggested, there are not many photos of captured Males - for some reason the Germans appeared to prefer the Female variant, less modification work I suppose. I just hope it looks a bit less garish when I start weathering it!

[cobra6]

nice camo :) hehehe Heinz

Cobra 6

[Lukem]

Cheers Mate!

It was either Heinz or Paul - and I don't have any photos of Paul so...:D

[cobra6]

like the name Heinz better hehe

Cobra 6

[Lukem]

Another update - the camo. is pretty much complete over the whole tank, have started working it up a bit.

[kevjon]

Weathering is coming along well. Its really starting to bring it to life.

[Lukem]

Cheers mate!:)

Stage 1 weathering / disruption complete on the main tank texture - the rails didn't fit on the map, so they have a map all to their selves (hence the reason why they still look flat).

Stage 2 (dust) is underway (no pictures yet). However, this stage is proving quite difficult due to the fact that the dust layer is a very similar colour to the sand yellow camo.!:rolleyes:

C & C (and help) more than welcome.

[Lukem]

Test render of the dust layer as it stands at the moment.

[Skyraider3D]

Nice going!
The edges of the various camouflage colours look a bit odd though ("Photoshopped" :))

[Lukem]

Thanks mate!

You are right, the edges are a bit of a mess. I'm not sure how it would have been applied - the captured tanks were refurbished in an almost factory environment - it's possible that they would have used spray guns. Period photos (as far as I can tell) show the edges being almost 'stippled', but that could equally be mud that's stuck to it (photos show them as virtually pebbledashed). If anyone has more information, could you let me know please?:)

A question I do have for you: what's the best method of applying rain stains? I've tried in the past with limited success, playing with opacities and the smudge brush, I just wondered where I'm going wrong.

[kevjon]

Weathering is coming along great.


A question I do have for you: what's the best method of applying rain stains?


I would of thought motion blur would give you effective rain stains and streaks. New layer, add a few blobs of color, apply motion blur, clean up with eraser and adjust opacity of layer to taste.

[Hitori Kyo]

Dust layer is looking great Lukem, i agree with Skyraider3D on the camo edges.

- Hitori Kyo

[Lukem]

Thanks Kev - I'll try that tonight.:)

Cheers Hitori - I'll try playing with the saturation in places, see if it makes a difference.

[JFandL]

Yes the dust layer is looking real good!


John

[cobra6]

Nice work on the dust! :) What technique did you use, outside the one I told?

ps: For rain: Use the smudge tool in photoshop,set it to low strength with a soft brush. Did that also with oil and dirt smears on my pather works surprisingly good. Just drag a part of the stain down.
you can find it in the left menu under eraser.

Cobra 6

[Lukem]

Cheers John!:)

Cheers Cobra!:) For the dust, I only used the technique you suggested - it works really well - thanks again mate. Thanks for the ideas for the stains.

Kev: I've only had a brief go at your suggestion for rain stains (I'm still sorting out the dust over the rest of the hull); I'm not entirely convinced so far - it works in places.

And desaturating the camo. edges isn't working - back to the drawing board - perhaps a bit of time with the dodge brush.

[Lukem]

The dust layer is finally complete.

Ideas for what to do next would be greatly appreciated:)

[Skyraider3D]

That looks awesome mate.

One suggestion though. I still don't quite like the way the various colours blend. It just looks Photoshopped. Try applying the Median filter (to be found under Noise filters) to each colour layer (assuming you have them seperated) and use a fairly small value. This will make the look of the curves a bit more uniform and I think it will solve this problem. Give it a go :)

[Lukem]

Cheers mate!

It's flattened at the moment (to try and keep the file size down a bit) - I should be able to separate it though and see what bp can do - thanks for the suggestion:)

[Hitori Kyo]

The white and black (name and markings) are to bright and need to be toned down in my opinion. Other than that and what skyraider has suggested fantastic work, the dirt looks great.

- Hitori Kyo

[kevjon]

Nice job on the textures Lukem. Thats looking really good.

I would probably add more dust and dirt to the lower part of the tank which is closer to the ground and leave the upper part as you have it now....personal taste only.

Look forward to seeing how you texture the tracks, it'll start to make it look complete.

[Karras]

Nice textures Lukem, but if you tear the emblems and the hull, much better. And then add a few ground by down.......smoke......:rolleyes:
Don't worry it's very cool ;)

[Lukem]

Thanks for the kind words - your suggestions have been taken on board!:)

I need to look at the camo. edges first, but after that we shall see...:D

[Lukem]

Does this look better Ronnie?

[Skyraider3D]

Does this look better Ronnie?It does, although it also got fuzzier. Not sure if it was airbrushed in WW1 or hand painted?

[cobra6]

It does, although it also got fuzzier. Not sure if it was airbrushed in WW1 or hand painted?

I *think* hand painted.

Cobra 6

[Lukem]

The photos I've seen look quite fuzzy - as I said in an earlier post, it's quite possible (as these vehicles were painted in a factory environment) that they used spray guns. Thanks for the help.:)

I'm currently playing with some staining (waiting for a render to finish).

Hitori: I agree with your comments regarding the brightness of the markings, but I will not be toning these ones down - see attached photo:)

[Lukem]

Early render of my progress with the stains....:frown:

[cobra6]

Bolt stains need to be thinner at the bolt itself. Make sure it is as wide as the bolt itself, not wider :) The rust always heaps up under the bolt, not much beside it.
But other than that nice work!

Cobra 6

[Lukem]

Cheers mate - I'll try that!:)

[DCB]

Nice work Lukem. Interesting subject you've chosen for the retexture.

Btw, is that Mudbox similar to ZBrush?

[Lukem]

Thanks DCB!:)

Mudbox is supposed to be a digital sculpting tool - it seems to be more user friendly than Zbrush, but I don't know what spec machine you need to be running it on; I was very disappointed that the demo wouldn't handle a single track link without crashing.

Update: (pictures later, hopefully - as long as I don't get distracted by XSI:D)
Have started texturing a track link; the basic link textures are pretty much complete, I've just got to sort out some clumps of mud - a simple bump map dosen't appear to be enough.

[Lukem]

OK, basic track textures in place.

And that's despite my XSI book arriving today!:D

[kevjon]

That looks great, I'm glad your didn't give texturing away on this tank and stuck with it.

[kliment]

track look excellently !!! superb!

[Hitori Kyo]

looks great and look forward to seeing the mud.

- Hitori Kyo

[Lukem]

Thanks for the kind words guys!:)

I'm hoping to look at the mud today - I'll let you know how I get on...:D

[Galgot]

Very nice work ! And impressive machine ! Nice "dirting" :)
...Now i know from what designer of some warhammer40000 vehicles got their inspiration from :)

[rapheal9]

wow amazing work!! i rem this tank was also used in an indiana jones movie too!

regds
rahul

[cobra6]

indeed very nice texturing Lukem :)

Cobra 6

[JFandL]

ahh nice update, can't wait to see what you come up with for mud.

John

[DCB]

Looking good.

So are you jumping ship to XSI?

[Simon]

wow amazing work!! i rem this tank was also used in an indiana jones movie too!

regds
rahul

Actually, the one in Indiana Jones was based on a late-WWI German tank design.

[Lukem]

Thanks very much for the comments guys!:)

Galgot: Cheers mate - I know what you mean regarding the 40K resemblance; just see DCB's avatar!:D

Rapheal9: Thanks sir!:) I don't remember the film, so I'm not sure what tank they used. I assume based on Simon's reply it might have been based on the A7V or even the 150t K-wagen?

Cobra: Cheers mate! And thanks for the excellent suggestion regarding to dust - a great help!:)

John: Thanks mate!:)

DCB: Cheers - I'm intending to model with XSI (and possibly render and set up shaders etc; when I know how to use it anyway), but painting will still be done in Bodypaint. It's not going to be immediate anyway; I've got this to finish first, as well as a certain other tank - but I doubt I will start another project in C4D.:(

Anyway, mud...my original plan of building a separate texture with an alpha channel hasn't worked - back to the drawing board...:confused:

[digiartist]

Excellent work Luke, it really pops with the German camo. Your texturing is very, very nice.

[Lukem]

Cheers mate - how's the book going?

[digiartist]

Done! Finished all the artwork for it the other day. Its all early stuff but I find later armour more interesting, hopefully I'll get a chance to do some Tigers and Panthers in later volumes :)

[kiwi123]

This is looking very nice ! It's just begging for a dusty environment with rocks thrown around....hint hint...

[kiwi123]

There you go, a worthy place on the header !

[digiartist]

indeed it is, congrats Luke!

[mrys]

Congrats Lukem! God to see you in headers keepers:D

[cobra6]

Congratulations Lukem! :) indeed wel worth the header!

Cobra 6

[Mirko]

Congratulations Lukem!
Very, very nice Work.

:salute:

[Karras]

Congrats man, beatiful models . Bravo ! :salute:

Now the next ;)

[krazycolin]

Congratulations!!!!


good one on the header!!!

[giant551]

agreed a well deserved header:D

[DCB]

Congrats on the header. Any updates?

[Lukem]

I don't know what to say - thank you very much Kiwi - very much appreciated!:) As far as the rocks go, I have a couple of ideas (both a little ambitious - for me anyway) - I do intend to create a finished painting...

Gareth: Thanks a lot mate! As far as early vs late armour goes - I do agree generally that later tanks are more interesting, but through the research I've done for this, I've developed an appreciation of what tank crews in the First World War had to go through operating these things.

Cobra: Thanks a lot mate - without your help, this tank wouldn't look as good as it does.

Mrys, Mirko, KC, Paul: Thanks a lot for the kind words friends!:)

Karras: Cheers mate! As for the next? I've got to finish this one first!:D

DCB: Thanks again mate...

Update: The rails are in the BP paint shop at the moment - they are close to the level of completion of the main hull (the tank currently takes upwards of two hours to render - no images until the weekend I'm afraid).